Is Buddhism meant to end all pain, not just suffering?

The Watercooler
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I need deep help from Theravada Buddhism, from something I’ve been Meditating on from a Vajrayana Perspective, that started out when I started reading many Pali Suttas that I must say are the most important works for me next to the Lotus Sutra. So I ask you don’t toss my question aside… I Love all of the Wonderful Sangha here and people of all backgrounds, thank you for letting me participate. So here goes:

I understand the final Cessation, once someone leaves birth and death behind, as well as the Saha World behind, is understood as the Extinction as entering Mahaparinirvana for good. Yet a Buddha can do anything, we are not playing a game of dice nor mathmatics here, Buddhas cannot go against the morality of a fully Awakened One.

So that means if a little bird is suffering, the Buddha will care, and be able to Emanate from Mahaparinirvana in the Body of a Buddha and save the little bird. The Buddhas pass into Extinction, yet some have propagated Vows to stay Emanated into Infinite Space Forever because of how deeply they Love fallen Sentient Beings, and because of their deep Meditation on and Love for the Buddha Vehicle.

Now, some Buddhas will not return to this world because of obligations to those who want them to Eternally Abide in Tranquility. Others will brave infinite forms of Saha Worlds for Eternity, this is not to say without rest for Eons at times.

So the question of pain during difficulties comes about. Suffering can be felt Expediently for a Buddha, as Skillful Means to drive those who are also feeling it towards Nibbana, so they are not startled that they are actually in the presence of a Buddha.

But when the suffering fully Ceases, and one attains Nibbana, and also, Nibbana shows it is just the beginning of the Buddhist Path, the question of what to do with the phenomena of pain comes about. As long as the smallest one-sensed organism is feeling a bit of discomfort, there is still work to be done by the Mahabuddhas to purify the scope of the Saha World, so that it will Enter Extinction, after which the Same Purpose for Sentient Lives will be there to attain Buddhahood, and there will be another Saha World, another Buddha King Creation…

Material Nature is immutable. Yet most Buddhas will Enter Extinction forever simply because they are Loved so much. I only know of two which will abide forever in the Worlds of Suffering and in Nibbana simultaneously, Emanating, which I can mention: Narayan, and Avalokakitesvara, both of which have infinite Eternal Forms and Emanations. Not that there aren’t many Others.

All pain won’t ever stop for good, but we will have nayutas of kalpas without it, until someone falls again and decides to crave for it, a beginingless being among infinite who never came into being, but was created for the purpose of Attaining Buddhahood.

So, even if this world is created again with a plethora of similar Sentient Beings, will the Entrance into Buddhahood for all those Sentient Beings be worth it for the pain it took, if ours eventually will be? It seems to me suffering and pain aren’t to be feared, but processed into Tranquil Extinction, in an Ongoing World, that will never end without a new beginning that brings about similar aptitudes.

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To begin untangling the tangle:

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors/bodhi/arahantsbodhisattvas.html

Correct. In Theravada samsara (“something separate” Samyutta Nikaya 35.80) forms the raw material which through the developed process of insight, results in joy which nourishes the practice.

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If this is true, Buddhas would had done a snap that makes us all into arahants instantly, long long time ago. To anticipate the Mahayana reply that we are all Buddhas already, just don’t recognise it, then the statement becomes, Buddha would had made us all recognized that we are all Buddhas already.

Nope, Buddhas are not omnipotent.

This requires the metaphysical thing called a soul does it not? Or else what is there to be identified as a Buddha? What is there from Mahaparinirvana for a being to emerge again. This also treats Mahaparinirvana as a form of special heaven.

Buddha will care and do something part is very similar to the “God as parental figure” psychological trick to appease those who believe in that doctrine.

This is like splitting a (non-existent) soul into two parts? I cannot make sense of this.

This is violating the notion that Nibbana is irreversible.

Is Buddhism meant to end all pain, not just suffering?

To answer just the title, pain is part of the definition of suffering. Pain as in physical pain. Yes, it comes bundled in the deal of attaining to nibbana that the arahants would bear their last body, their physical pain ends with their parinibbana.

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Not to sidetrack, but there is meaning in life, even in the Saha World.

Would things be easier if Buddha by His Powers turned everyone into Buddhas? Yes.

There is a question then: what is the meaning to the Path? This is a weightier question as to whether Buddhas are Omnipotent or not.

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Only the meaning you give it.

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Nibbana as in a full stream Entry for an Arhat, a real one, is irreversible, and non regressive. But even an Arhat can agitate their mind with Skillful Means by which they do not feel like they are in Nibbana when they are, as an Expedient Means to guide others to the Path.

But this is not what I was referring to in my statement.

Let me clear it up.

I was referring to the Point after all beings became Buddhas, and new beginingless beings were created by such for another Cycle of the Wheel of the Law, in order for every possible being again to attain Buddhahood in order for it’s Joy to be realized in them.

If you think in linear or even quadratic notions this is difficult to comprehend. A Way to Comprehend it can only be given if you do in fact believe Buddhas can be Omnipotent if they choose, as they are, not A + B = C style thinking which cannot even grant the smallest amount of stream Entry.

As for the non existent Soul, has non existence overcome it’s Power in Dependant Origination? This is very complicated but they say a Buddha neither exists nor not exists, but if a Buddha decides to not exist, this will still not overpower them!

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This is not my understanding. Suttas I have read point to Arahants being able to act in the world free from agitation. They do not create agitation in their minds even if they use sharp words. Do you have a sutta from the Early Buddhist Texts that says differently?

Who or what creates these beings? Why create these beings if they are destined to suffer until they attain Buddhahood? If beings were created at all, they should be created with perfect knowledge. To create imperfect beings that have to strive to Buddhahood is cruel.

We can only follow a teaching that can be comprehended. The path laid out is one where gradual practice leads to direct knowledge. It is necessary to believe to the extent that one will be motivated to practice, but no more.

Existence and non-existence are relative. It is not possible to simply decide to exist or not exist.

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There’s a lot written to defend the existence of an all good, powerful and knowing God, I am not aware that Tibetan Buddhism really transformed Buddha into all powerful and thus fit into that category. There’s easy way out of the problem of evil if Buddha remains only all good and all knowing, but all powerful is usually the one we left out to showcase that Buddhism is more logical than God based religions.

The problem of evil statement would refute any notion of all powerful being who’s all good and knowing. There’s no point to the meaning of suffering if someone can snap it off of us immediately.

How knowledgeable are you in Tibetan Buddhism? 20 years of study of their texts like the lamas who dedicated their life to the path? Are you certain that Tibetan Buddhism has the notion of Buddhas are omnipotent? It’s indefensible.

Totally sounds like soul thing, and sadistic creator of souls. Is this part of the Tibetan doctrine? Can cite them?

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I’ve been studying Tibetan Buddhism lifetime after lifetime, always coming back to it, it has an aspect of all inclusiveness. Let me share a quote with you from the Drikung Kagyu Blue Prayer Book, since you asked, and maybe it can answer part of your Question:

I beseech you, protectors in the worlds of the ten directions, by
completely turning the wheel of stainless Dharma with the sound
of the ocean-like branches of melodious speech, please ripen all
sentient beings without exception.
I beseech you, protectors who abide throughout all realms, please
do not pass into nirvana until the exhaustion of the dhatu of space,
rather fulfill your commitments by abiding permanently.
May all sentient beings be established in the unsurpassed, supreme
state by this virtue, by the virtues accumulated in the three times
throughout all samsara and nirvana, and by the undefiled innate
virtue.

https://garchen.net/library-gbi-prayerbooks/

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Also, so it comes down to it, in this point, the Saha World is full of suffering, and most of us have suffered. Are you not glad to be on the Buddhist Path though?

In the Same Way, is it incorrect to give new creations the Same chance you’re having? Your abiding is not sadistic, what about someone in the future who is just like you, with the Same ideas, dreams, and hopes? Wouldn’t that person have the right to Live? To such a reason I do not think it would be unwise for Nayutas of Buddhas to one day create new beginingless living entities, so they can also live their lives. A potential life is a real life if it can undoubtedly be created. Yes, it requires Omnipotence to do so, but understanding that is less about argument and more about Metta, for it is Metta that is Omnipotent.

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Does this means you recall your past lives and have specific memory that you were also studying Tibetan Buddhism back then?

If not, and the above is merely a statement from faith, then it’s still worth to tell us what’s your this life’s exposure to Tibetan Buddhism.

The more you share, the less faith I have on whatever you said. So it’s important for me to know if your words have scriptural backing.

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