@samseva
Yes, the annotations are a great part of Bhikkhu Bodhi’s translations. They do kind of more suit the electronic version. Easy to hop back and forth to an annotation and back again on the PC or in an ebook reader. The physical book is pretty heavy and makes juggling back and forth to the notes sections with bookmarks etc. a bit awkward! 
In an ideal world, the whole SN probably should be broken up into a number of separate easy to flick through physical volumes. Anyway I’m looking forward to Bhante Sujato’s upcoming SN translation (plus all the rest).
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Ah, yes. These are useful as well. In the previous post, I meant personal annotations or bookmarks. Depending on what software you use, you can highlight, underline and even write down notes. This is then probably compiled into list.
OK, I understand now. That’s definitely a cool aspect of the electronic format alright (I’ve never really felt comfortable highlighting or scribbling in the margins of physical books anyway).
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It seems, from the passages so far, there might be the following possibilities:
- Sammā-sammādhi is jhāna.
- Nibbāna is only attained from reaching jhāna, and possibly all 4 rūpa jhānas, as well as all 4 arūpa jhānas.
However, there are still the following issues:
- That the only way to develop sammā-samādhi is to try and reach jhāna? And if one hasn’t reached jhāna, this would, in a way, mean that there is a limb that is left undeveloped?
- How can it be possible for so many people in the Suttas to have reached Enlightenment, while doubtfully having not reached all 4 jhānas, let alone all eight?
The vagueness in this area is probably a reason why many branches of Buddhism have dispensed with some of the hard parts of the Path. It’s much easier to sit and observe whatever thoughts arise, see them as fleeting and impermanent and conclude that nothing more needs to be done. The same goes for renunciation, which is not an easy endeavour, but that’s a different topic.
Gradually drawing the mind away from sensuality and delusion by dhyana is a fundamental component of the Path, to me.
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This may or may not be true. We will only know once we attain final liberation. The danger I see here in thinking that jhana is not necessary is that we wouldn’t specifically practice jhana which is mentioned innumerable times throughout the suttas and so their importance should not be underestimated.
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Yes, I completely agree. And this is the exact reason why I think it is so important to discuss this topic.
This is a rather difficult topic and I think it would be great to have Ven. @sujato and Ven. @Brahmali give their thoughts on the subject.
According to the EBTs, would you consider sammā-samādhi to be solely jhāna, meaning that the spoke of sammā-samādhi is only to try to develop jhāna? Is jhāna a requirement for Nibbāna, and if so, are all four or even all eight required?
Jhāna is sammā-sammādhi, and sammā-sammādhi is jhāna.
The first one is probably not the EBT position. It seems that there were people with jhana independent from the Buddha, and there are hints that this was the first jhana only
Nigantha Nataputta then said to him: “Householder, do you have faith in the ascetic Gotama when he says: ‘There is a concentration without thought and examination, there is a cessation of thought and examination’?.. One who thinks that thought and examination can be stopped might imagine he could catch the wind in a net or arrest the current of the river Ganges with his own fist. (SN 41.8)
See also Snp 5.1 where Bramins visit the Buddha
Bhadrāvudha, Udaya and as well the brahmin Posala, Moghāraja the very wise and Piṅgiya the greatest sage. All of them with their pupils’ groups in all the world they’re famed— enjoyers of jhāna, meditators Wise (Jhāyī jhānaratā dhīrā), patterned by past good karmas made.
So there was some jhana before and parallel to the Buddha without liberation. Also I would exclude the four arupas from the core samma-samadhi definition. Yes, they appear often, but they are not jhana and too often after the fourth jhana we get the liberation formula already. The biggest issue with them is the Buddha’s teachers who taught up to the fourth arupa.
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As you have pointed out, sammāsamādhi is normally defined as the four jhānas in the EBTs. The only exception that I am aware of is when it is defined as follows, e.g. at MN 117:
Katamo ca, bhikkhave, ariyo sammāsamādhi saupaniso saparikkhāro? Seyyathidaṃ— sammādiṭṭhi, sammāsaṅkappo, sammāvācā, sammākammanto, sammāājīvo, sammāvāyāmo, sammāsati; yā kho, bhikkhave, imehi sattahaṅgehi cittassa ekaggatā parikkhatā— ayaṃ vuccati, bhikkhave, ariyo sammāsamādhi saupaniso itipi, saparikkhāro itipi.
What, bhikkhus, is noble right concentration with its supports and its requisites, that is, right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, and right mindfulness? Unification of mind equipped with these seven factors is called noble right concentration with its supports and its requisites.
Here it is not clear what sammāsamādhi refers to. But given that the predominant form of samādhi in the suttas is jhāna, we can infer that this is what is meant here as well. In fact this is explicitly stated elsewhere, such as AN 5.28:
Katamā ca, bhikkhave, ariyassa pañcaṅgikassa sammāsamādhissa bhāvanā? Idha, bhikkhave, bhikkhu vivicceva kāmehi…pe… paṭhamaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharati. … dutiyaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharati. … tatiyaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharati. … catutthaṃ jhānaṃ upasampajja viharati.
And what, bhikkhus, is the development of noble five-factored right concentration? Here, secluded from sensual pleasures, secluded from unwholesome states, a bhikkhu enters and dwells in the first jhāna … enters and dwells in the second jhāna … enters and dwells in the third jhāna … enters and dwells in the fourth jhāna …
The above, combined with the statement that the eightfold path is the path to awakening, makes it almost certain, to my mind, that jhāna is required for awakening. If one still wishes to argue that jhāna is not required, one would also have to concede that none of the factors of the eightfold path is strictly necessary. I don’t think such an argument is possible, because the very name of the path implies that it only works when all eight factors are developed.
From the above I think one would have to conclude that jhāna is required for awakening. How many are required will depend on one’s other spiritual faculties. For some the first jhāna may be sufficient. For others the higher jhānas will be required. As for the immaterial attainments (which, by the way, are never called jhāna in the suttas), they are presumably not required since they are not part of the path. This, however, does not mean they are not beneficial. For some, the immaterial attainments may prove the fastest and easiest route to awakening.
Personally I think the question of whether jhāna is required for awakening, or indeed for stream-entry, is missing the point. To reach any stage of awakening, the eightfold path is the way. At some stage on this path, stream-entry and arahantship will happen. If it hasn’t happened before one reaches jhāna, one would be foolish to exclude jhāna from one’s practice on the basis of a theoretical belief. Instead, you just continue to develop the path until the stages of awakening happen, whether this includes jhāna or not. In other words, the question of whether jhāna is absolutely required, or at what stage it is required, does not really have any practical implications.
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We have the following in AN 11.16 and MN 52
…a bhikkhu enters and dwells in the first jhāna… He considers this and understands it thus: ‘This first jhāna is constructed and produced by volition (jhānaṃ abhisaṅkhataṃ abhisañcetayitaṃ). But whatever is constructed and produced by volition is impermanent, subject to cessation.’ If he is firm in this, he attains the destruction of the taints. But if he does not attain the destruction of the taints because of that lust for the Dhamma, because of that delight in the Dhamma, then, with the utter destruction of the five lower fetters, he becomes one of spontaneous birth, due to attain final nibbāna there without ever returning from that world.
The same is repeated for jhana 2-4, the 4 brahmaviharas, and arupas 1-3 = 11. Maybe in order to fit into AN 11 the last arupa was left out.
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The last immaterial attainment is always left out when insight is developed based on samādhi. The usual explanation is that the attainment is too subtle to enable direct contemplation of it.
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Although this is from Ānanda, who wasn’t Enlightened until just before the First Council after the Buddha’s death, this is a non-ambiguous passage stating that the jhānas past the first are not an absolute requirement for attaining Nibbāna.
If only we could find such clear passages said by the Buddha. 
Thank you for your input, Bhante, it is much welcomed.
While I do agree that obsessing over theoretical details is completely missing the point, I think to know to what positive extent jhāna is important is a crucial aspect of the path.
Say if one were to think that jhāna isn’t required, probably not much effort would be put into practicing meditation. On the opposite side, however, if such a person were to find out that the first or all four jhānas are required to attain Enlightenment, surely this person would drastically change his approach to the practice.
It is for this reason why I think it is important to have a good understanding of how jhānas fit into the eightfold path—not to avoid them, but to underline their (highly probable) requirement and importance.
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Sammasamadhi does mean jhana.
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At least the first jhana is required for attaining nibbana, but it’s probably not necessary for stream-entry.
I think that covers it.
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Hi daverupa,
The second statement hasn’t been presented in the discussion with conclusive passages.
Also, while I appreciate your input, please try to avoid directing the flow of a topic, or summarizing a discussion, which has been started by someone else.
The discussion is at an important stage, and having an incorrectly presented summary might misdirect the thread. It could also be interpreted as the discussion being over.
If you would like to present your above post, please do so as an opinion or with references from passages.
Warm regards.
Yes, my point was that one should never avoid jhāna because one has concluded they are unnecessary, even with reference tor stream-entry. Since they are part of the path, one should practice the jhānas when one gets there. Deliberately avoiding them would just slow you down or block you altogether from making progress. If one has doubts about the place of jhāna, it is perhaps best simply to leave the question open and practice the full path as it unfolds naturally.
Another point is that jhāna is a lesser degree of letting go than stream-entry. To reach the first jhāna you need to let go of a lot, but there is still a small aspect of the five khandhas you can hold on to. With stream-entry you need to let go of the five khandhas entirely, at least temporarily. So there is a natural progress on the path from satipaṭṭhāna to jhāna to stream-entry.
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According to the Susima sutta we can consider that immaterial states are not a necessity for nibbana. Here he asks arahanths who have been released through wisdom (panna vimutta) about their attainments:
“Then, having known thus, having seen thus, do you dwell touching with your body the peaceful emancipations, the formless states beyond form [the formless jhanas]?”
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“No, friend.”
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“So just now, friends, didn’t you make that declaration without having attained any of these Dhammas?”
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"We’re released through discernment, friend Susima."SN12.70
Note that the arahanths say they do not have formless states, but there’s no discussion about the form jhana, suggesting they do have these. There’s a practical suggestion that what is required from the jhana for the attainment of nibbana is the high levels of samadhi developed while in those jhanic states and that the samadhi of the arupa jhana doesn’t exceed that of the fourth jhana (though there is a change of state)- therefore they are not an essential part of the Noble Eightfold path.
with metta
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Dear Bhante,
I have found in other topic here (thanks to @llt) that in the Chinese Agamas, sammāsamādhi is not defined as the four jhānas, but as unification of mind (ekaggata). For example, in the SA 784 (Pali parallel of SN 45.8):
何等為正定？謂住心不亂，堅固攝持，寂止、三昧、一心
What is Right Samādhi? That is to say, abiding with the mind not scattered, firm and collected, with tranquility, samādhi, and unity of mind.
What is your opinion about the difference of definition of Right Samādhi between Pali Nikayas and Chinese Agamas? Does this indicate the practice of Right Samādhi is different among early Buddhist traditions?
Thank you 
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Reminiscent of MN 44.
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@samseva
One more short thought crossed my mind this morning on the SN Indriya Samyutta’s treatment of jhana. While SN48 does seem to imply an arahant has a mastery of concentration (essentially equating to the four rupa jhanas in that section), that, however, doesn’t at all necessarily imply that a full mastery of jhana is necessary to become an arahant in the first place (the arrow may run both ways). Wisdom’s role as strengthener and stabilizer of the other four faculties, including concentration (as in the “roof peak” metaphor) would kick in after a wisdom/enlightenment breakthrough. Presumably, once a person breaks through to arahantship, then there’s really nothing left blocking him/her from full concentration mastery. It would logically follow that a similar pattern would happen also with the earlier three enlightenment stages: a partial wisdom breakthrough partially reinforces the other faculties. So, even if, hypothetically, a new sotapanna didn’t have jhana before, then his newly acquired wisdom should then establish it in him to some degree. So he will have some foothold in all five faculties (though perhaps strongest in saddha), and hence the stream has become established in him.
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