Is there any arahant known nowadays?

I answered such questions, but it led you to thoughts about a computer bot who could do the same.

Have you noticed useful principles which I explained in those answers?

Did you think about applying those principles?

Someone said on “Buddhism Stack Exchange” that this is a forum of practitioners, intended for helping in practice.

That’s why I came here: for helping each other in practice.

Then I definitely shouldn’t answer your question.

Santa100, my understanding about Sakadagamin etc. is in accordance of what I have read.

If I had read and misunderstood something, that would prove delusion.

But not knowing some theory doesn’t mean delusion. It only means not knowing some theory.

There is a difference between having something done and knowing theories about that.

@zhao

Hi friend , always be alert to take in account of reactions and responses ,
which I suppose you would .
This world is full of challenges ,
different people has different
mind set . Sometimes , the words
is not that soothing . Be prepared .

I know very little about Mahayana.
Aren’t Arahant still possess attachment, aversion and ignorance according to Mahayana?

https://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=18320&hilit

Hi Zhao, I think you misunderstood my words.
No ill will from here friend.
I was just trying to remind people to keep their mind open and the space friendly.
Not accusing you of a bot but acknowledging that when it comes to internet interaction things like the Turing test and Chinese room test are possible!
:anjal:

This someone probably has a wrong understanding about this forum:

Thank you, James. :slight_smile:

Of course it’s impossible to see clean world, looking through dirty glass.

It’s usually hard to dispel delusion of a person even in eye-to-eye talk; through internet chat it’s usually unlikely.

So I’m not going to argue here with anyone.

Maybe I said enough on this forum. If anyone wants to help each other with practice, please feel free to contact me, for the benefit of all sentient beings!

:namaste:

Well, “in accordance of what I have read” doesn’t provide any useful info. at all for you did not mention the source of your reading: suttas, sutras, writings of some modern teachers, some Buddhist articles somewhere, etc…? Not sure if you’ve read DN 16’s Four Great Referrals? By the way, no, it’s not just some mere theories about the Noble Fruits. There’re clear-cut definitions about the Fruits in both the Pali Nikayas and Mahayana Agamas. That’s why I recommended you spend some time reading them to find out where you went wrong.

This tradition has a serious issue with attainment. We all want it, but have a very conflicting relationship to any claim. It’s like “I believe that arahantship is possible” but also “I don’t believe anyone is an arahant”. Even Maha Boowa’s claim is ripped apart. At the same time people love to talk about which monk has attained what.

Seriously guys, claim or no claim. Spiritual friendship with the one’s more developed than we are is considered one of the best drivers of our development. Which means we take inspiration from people around us. No need to diminish anyone, claim or no claim.

7 Likes

I don’t follow your logic.

My question in regards to what is your livelihood vis-a-vis your attainment has to do with the topic of conversation.
Read further above, there is an usual understanding that once people attain to what you say you have attained it is virtually impossible to carry on a usual lay person’s lifestyle.
I saw this conversation as a nice opportunity to confirm whether that was the case in your experience or not.
All I want is to understand whether what EBTs say and postulate in theory were confirmed in your practice.
:anjal:

No, I haven’t met such interpretation.

By the way, which exactly words in that link say so?

“It is now believed that It was only after he (Arhant) had passed away that he reached such a state of perfect tranquillity because some residue of human defilement would continue to exist as long as his physical body existed.”

The way I understand for Mahyanists the attainment of Arahant is la esser attainment.

Thank you for the link, Santa100, I will read it.

My point is: if a person doesn’t know some theory – including clear-cut definitions – it doesn’t mean he has delusions.

I hope you could understand it easily.

Sure, and it doesn’t mean he has attained Arahantship either. :slightly_smiling_face:

Wouldn’t it be a discussion about Buddhist practice?

It doesn’t mean to “possess attachment, aversion and ignorance”.

In Mahayana it is said that there is

  1. Awakening of seeing the original nature. That is liberation from delusions; but imprints of delusions remain (a.k.a. obstacles to omniscience).
  2. Complete awakening, anuttara-samyak-sambodhi.

I think that Arhat in Mahayana is considered awakened in the first sense.

What does “perfect tranquility” mean there – I don’t know.

Only if we approach this way.

The intention of the question is to understand if in your experience crossing the threshold resulted in - one way or another - a change in circumstances in regards to the sourcing of the four requisites.

It is a personal speculation on my behalf that, as the path unfolds, the circumstances of the material experience of world changes in a way in which the four requisites become more and more available to the stream of awakened experience unconstrained by the usual conditions of a lay livelihood, and therefore closer to the usual conditions of a contemplative livelihood.

Hence, the point is to understand if this is aligned with your experience (not practice). I refrain from making and judgement call or going beyond it. I am not interested at all in proving you wrong or right.

I just want to discuss it in a way aligned with the usual model of Socratic questioning:

Socratic questioning (or Socratic maieutics) is disciplined questioning that can be used to pursue thought in many directions and for many purposes, including: to explore complex ideas, to get to the truth of things, to open up issues and problems, to uncover assumptions, to analyze concepts, to distinguish what we know from what we don’t know, to follow out logical implications of thought or to control the discussion.

Could you please explain and give a reference, what are the clear-cut definitions of the Noble Fruits which you mentioned?

I wouldn’t rely on your opinions, because we shouldn’t rely even on our own opinions.

On safeguarding the truth, see MN95:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.095x.than.html

My experience and practice are one and the same thing.

Also, for me, the practice of the Path is important; personal speculations about experiences are not.

I hope you understand that and agree that I should concentrate on something useful.

Thank you for conversation.

Let it be beneficial for all sentient beings.