Hi friend , always be alert to take in account of reactions and responses ,
which I suppose you would .
This world is full of challenges ,
different people has different
mind set . Sometimes , the words
is not that soothing . Be prepared .
Hi Zhao, I think you misunderstood my words.
No ill will from here friend.
I was just trying to remind people to keep their mind open and the space friendly.
Not accusing you of a bot but acknowledging that when it comes to internet interaction things like the Turing test and Chinese room test are possible!
Of course it’s impossible to see clean world, looking through dirty glass.
It’s usually hard to dispel delusion of a person even in eye-to-eye talk; through internet chat it’s usually unlikely.
So I’m not going to argue here with anyone.
Maybe I said enough on this forum. If anyone wants to help each other with practice, please feel free to contact me, for the benefit of all sentient beings!
Well, “in accordance of what I have read” doesn’t provide any useful info. at all for you did not mention the source of your reading: suttas, sutras, writings of some modern teachers, some Buddhist articles somewhere, etc…? Not sure if you’ve read DN 16’s Four Great Referrals? By the way, no, it’s not just some mere theories about the Noble Fruits. There’re clear-cut definitions about the Fruits in both the Pali Nikayas and Mahayana Agamas. That’s why I recommended you spend some time reading them to find out where you went wrong.
This tradition has a serious issue with attainment. We all want it, but have a very conflicting relationship to any claim. It’s like “I believe that arahantship is possible” but also “I don’t believe anyone is an arahant”. Even Maha Boowa’s claim is ripped apart. At the same time people love to talk about which monk has attained what.
Seriously guys, claim or no claim. Spiritual friendship with the one’s more developed than we are is considered one of the best drivers of our development. Which means we take inspiration from people around us. No need to diminish anyone, claim or no claim.
My question in regards to what is your livelihood vis-a-vis your attainment has to do with the topic of conversation.
Read further above, there is an usual understanding that once people attain to what you say you have attained it is virtually impossible to carry on a usual lay person’s lifestyle.
I saw this conversation as a nice opportunity to confirm whether that was the case in your experience or not.
All I want is to understand whether what EBTs say and postulate in theory were confirmed in your practice.
“It is now believed that It was only after he (Arhant) had passed away that he reached such a state of perfect tranquillity because some residue of human defilement would continue to exist as long as his physical body existed.”
The intention of the question is to understand if in your experience crossing the threshold resulted in - one way or another - a change in circumstances in regards to the sourcing of the four requisites.
It is a personal speculation on my behalf that, as the path unfolds, the circumstances of the material experience of world changes in a way in which the four requisites become more and more available to the stream of awakened experience unconstrained by the usual conditions of a lay livelihood, and therefore closer to the usual conditions of a contemplative livelihood.
Hence, the point is to understand if this is aligned with your experience (not practice). I refrain from making and judgement call or going beyond it. I am not interested at all in proving you wrong or right.
I just want to discuss it in a way aligned with the usual model of Socratic questioning:
Socratic questioning (or Socratic maieutics) is disciplined questioning that can be used to pursue thought in many directions and for many purposes, including: to explore complex ideas, to get to the truth of things, to open up issues and problems, to uncover assumptions, to analyze concepts, to distinguish what we know from what we don’t know, to follow out logical implications of thought or to control the discussion.