SuttaCentral
Thread for discussing chapter 21 of Warder for the class on January 30th 2024.
Meeting ID: 829 5896 1475
Passcode: anicca
Homework for this class:
Question 1:
DPD gives the f. sg. nom. for bhotī as bhoti - is this a mistake?
Question 2:
Is this what Warder means when he refers to the verb ah as a defective verb on pg 170?
Also this might be fun to watch while translating Passage 2 
Rather disappointed that Reading Passage #1 was totally lost on me except for root words here and there plus recognition of some inflections and tenses ā¦
Upon cheating a few times , I could piece together the meaning. (Couldnāt find everything in the DPD and I even checked Margaret Coneās ancient dictionary!) Have to assume the context would have made a big difference 
Ven @acala has provided motivation to plunge into Reading 2 
I think bhoti/bhotī is one of those nouns that can go either way, like itthi/itthī, see Warder p.152 at the bottom of the page.
Is this what Warder means when he refers to the verb ah as a defective verb on pg 170?
Yes, that is exactly right. At least, as I uderstand the term.
Donāt be discouraged. It is definitely not an easy passage. Weāll work through it together tonight.
Iām a bit lost with what Warder wants to convey here:
At the left he is saying that the root man means consider. Iāve found this word in a dictionary as maƱƱati.
But what does he mean with mano, manva and manna? Is this a declined form of maƱƱati or sammannati? Which form is that?
Thanks!
I have started assembling a list of grammatical questions to ask about this passage, but will leave it on hold til after class, when hopefully Iāll have less to worry you about John! Better to spend my time taking a nap so that Iām fully functional this evening!
Never entirely sure about Warder, but the PED entry is helpful here:
Sammannati [saÅ+man, fr. Vedic manute, manvate, for the usual manyate: see maƱƱati]
Skt manyate becomes P maƱƱati.
The Skt āmanvateā becomes P mannati, prefixed with sam-
(I suppose this explains why this form does not have the palatal nasal (Ʊ), but rather the dental nasal (n).
In Pali, ā(a)vaā often reduces to āoā e.g. bhavati ā> hoti, Skt avalokayati ā> oloketi, etc.
The Skt root āmanā can mean āconsiderā, think.
Also see PED entry for āMano & Mana(s)ā p. 522.
Thanks! Do I get this right that sammannati can also be sammanoti or sammanvati?
Iām not aware of either of those being attested forms.
I probably wonāt be able make many of these now since my kamma was signing up for college so now I have to wake up for class a few hours after (itās a public speaking class and Iām actually going to talk about nothingness from Buddhism today), but Iāve certainly appreciated yours and Bhante Sujatoās PÄli teachings along with the dedicated classmates 
Dear John, due to my absence from the last two sessions, I am no longer up to date with the grammar and vocabulary and am not able to do all the translations at the moment. Thatās a real shame, Iāve learned a lot and and still am very motivated. I really want to continue. I hope there will be another opportunity in the near future. I am most grateful to you @johnk John and @sujato!
Alan
Hello @bran and @asci. Itās been a great pleasure having you in the class.
But, time permitting, please donāt stop your PÄli studies. And this applies to everyone in the class since the Tuesday evenings are now winding down - just two weeks left.
All of you can continue working your way through the rest of Warder on your own, and I strongly urge you to do so. The forum will remain open for PÄli questions and I and others like Stephen will answer them as we can.
John, I have no idea how to use this 
In MahaSatipatthana Sutta, in the Dhammanupassana section, in the four noble truths,
katamanca bhikkave yampiccham na labhati tampi dukkham: Jatidhammanam bhikkave sattanam evam icca uppajjati: aho vata mayam na jati dhamma assama, ā¦
Iām sorry I havenāt set up under dots and all that because I learn in Sinhala script!
Just want to confirm that assama is derived from AS or atthi
Thank you very much for teaching us so well - although I havenāt placed much importance on grammar. Focus is mainly on the teaching.
Yes, Suroo, assÄma is from the verb atthi. It is optative 1st person plural, āMay we not beā.
aho vata mayaį¹ na jÄti dhammÄ assÄma - āOh, if only we may not be of the nature to be reborn!ā
Thank you very much John 
Dear @johnk thanks very much! I am definitely continuing with the studies and will not give up this treasure. I hope the opportunity will come to take on another PÄli course for systematic repetition and refreshment of what I have learned so far and will try to memorize.
