John Kelly Pali course 2024: Warder lesson 22a

Sure, Suroo. We can discuss this verse.
You can lead us through what you can decipher of the grammar, then we’ll help with what’s mysterious to you.

Here it is repeated, with correct diacritics:

Dukkhappattā ca niddukkhā
Bhayappattā ca nibbhayā
Sokappattā ca nissokā
Hontu sabbe pi pāṇino.


:slight_smile: could there be a FOURTH type - those who count that CAN count too !


Oh dear I don’t know if I can explain grammar :face_with_raised_eyebrow:


Thanks John

Aha. Thanks.
I misremembered that as gerundive, cos of the -ve ending. :upside_down_face: … So do you, or Warder, use gerundive?

(Still trying to get my head around #1.)

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I believe synonyms for ‘gerundive’ would be ‘future passive participle’ or ‘optative participle’.
(that which should or could be done)

Quite distinct from the ‘gerund’ or ‘absolutive’.

PS be careful when using PED, as the abbreviations for ‘gerund’ and ‘gerundive’ are very close…


We’re not using this term for Pāli as I’m aware. The Latin gerundive would most closely parallel what Warder calls the Future Passive Participle (page 104)

[ETA: @stephen you just beat me to the punch while I was looking up the page number! :face_with_hand_over_mouth:]


We’re not; but others do, and in less than a week we will have disbanded. so BEWARE!

Thanks @stephen: that’s what I was thinking of.
Will post a note to self somewhere obvious and try not to ask again.

[The root cause of my confusion is that I was taught that in English the gerund is a present participle used as a noun: Swimming is a sport, and the gerundive is a present participle used as an adjective: The swimming girl is strong.]

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Yes, I find it confusing as well, and was taught about the ‘gerund’ in English grammar just as you describe.
However, I only know the ‘gerundive’ used in the Pali way via Latin, as Ven. Khemarato mentioned above.

It is important to know these terms since they were used by Rhys-Davids and Stede in PED.

I can’t remember off hand what Margaret Cone uses.


A post was merged into an existing topic: John Kelly Pali course 2024: Warder lesson 22b

de Silva calls her Lesson 9 “The Gerund, the Absolutive or the Indeclinable Participle”.

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