John Kelly’s Pāli Class 2024 (G&K) Class 13

Thread for discussing John Kelly’s Pāli Class 2024 (G&K) Class 13 for the class on June 16th / 17th 2024.

Meeting ID: 829 5896 1475
Passcode: anicca

You will need to remain in the “waiting room” until host lets you in.

Homework preparation for this class:

  1. Complete G&K Lesson V: Readings 3-4, p. 64 (finishing off from previous class)
  2. Review all of G&K Lesson V: Grammar – sections 1-10, pp. 67-73
  3. Study G&K Glossary V-2, pp. 75-76
  4. Complete G&K Lesson V: Further Readings 1-4, pp. 73-75
  5. Look ahead through some of the material in Lesson VI
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No class this coming Sunday/Monday (9th/10th June). Some time for you to all take a breather and catch up!
Next class, as indicated above, will be 16th/17th June.


Greetings, I’ll be on travel 16 June observing our Father’s Day tradition with my 91-year-old parents! Have a great class :elephant: :pray:t3:


Ha! I finally can take a class at home instead of searching for a quiet room at the monastery to hide in, and we’re off :grin:


Regarding Dhp 30, There are so many and diverse translations given for pamāda/appamāda. Heedlessness/heedfulness. Negligence/earnestness. Negligence/diligence. Carelessness/carefulness. Unawareness/awareness.

Here is the commentary (as translated by Carter & Palihawadana with their unconventional translation of the key terms. appamāda= “awareness” sati= “mindfulness”). I grabbed the pali commentary from Tipitaka Pali Reader, Dhammapadaaṭṭhakathā.

tattha appamādoti padaṃ mahantaṃ atthaṃ dīpeti, mahantaṃ atthaṃ gahetvā tiṭṭhati. sakalampi hi tepiṭakaṃ buddhavacanaṃ āharitvā kathiyamānaṃ appamādapadameva otarati. tena vuttaṃ – "seyyathāpi, bhikkhave, yāni kānici jaṅgalānaṃ pāṇānaṃ padajātāni, sabbāni tāni hatthipade samodhānaṃ gacchanti, hatthipadaṃ tesaṃ aggamakkhāyati yadidaṃ mahantattena. evameva kho, bhikkhave, ye keci kusalā dhammā, sabbete appamādamūlakā appamādasamosaraṇā, appamādo tesaṃ dhammānaṃ aggamakkhāyatī"ti (saṃ. ni. 5.140). so panesa atthato satiyā avippavāso nāma. niccaṃ upaṭṭhitāya satiyā cetaṃ nāmaṃ.

“Awareness” illumines a massive meaning, spans a massive content; for the entire Word of the Buddha included in the three piṭakas taken up and given articulation, boils down to the word “awareness” only. Therefore has it been said: “It is, O Monks, like the case of the many kinds of footsteps of moving creatures—all of them gain inclusion in the elephant’s footstep: by its massiveness, the elephant’s step occupies the foremost place among them. In the same way, O Monks, whatever wholesome mental states there are, they are all awareness-based, they all converge in awareness; awareness occupies the foremost place among these mental states.”
Now this [awareness] is in essence “not being bereft of mindfulness”; it is [just another] name for constantly occurring mindfulness.

pamādoti pamajjanabhāvo, muṭṭhassatisaṅkhātassa satiyā vosaggassetaṃ nāmaṃ.
Unawareness pamādo: The state of being unaware. This is a term for the abandonment of mindfulness, which is the same as the state of having neglected mindfulness.

After considering the commentary, I personally like negligence/diligence. Meaning, not neglecting the Buddha’s instruction about right mindfulness.


or inattention/attentiveness

Also seems interesting since I believe this statement

has a variant in Majjhima 28 which substitutes the 4 Noble Truths? (I’ll have to check more carefully)

The variation is this:
evameva kho, āvuso, ye keci kusalā dhammā sabbete catūsu ariyasaccesu saṅgahaṁ gacchanti

But yes, there is certainly a close connection between appamāda, sati and sampajanna.


Yes, Ayya, I prefer negligence/diligence as the renderings for this pair of Pāli words too. Thanks for digging out the commentary and pointing the clear connection there to maintaining mindfulness or not, as opposed to just general diligence over a broader spectrum.


Also Ven @Sobhana do you know what reference this is?

When I read the entirety of Dhp21-32, it appears some usage of pamāda/appamāda carries connotations of effort (while others seem oriented toward meditation – at least, in Bhante Sujato’s translation).

Interestingly, I looked up the “Carter” of Carter & Palihawadana … he seems to have passed away about 25 years ago. Looking at his bio, he likely wasn’t a Buddhist but certainly a well-known scholar. So I wonder what influenced him (and Palihawadana) to use such an unconventional translation (“awareness”). I suppose we’ll never know.

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This may be of help:

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I think saṃ. ni. 5.140 must refer to Saṃyutta Nikaya … but I could not quite track it . The quoted text can be tracked to SN45.140. Maybe the Tipitaka Pali Reader had a typo in the citation!

Sometimes I find it useful to recall the habits of methodical effort from decades as a secular worker, in stirring up right effort for meditation.

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Yes, the converter gives this sutta.
Does it seem correct?

It doesn’t seem like it – Ven. Sobhana’s reference is the one. However, this is (magically :joy:) the sutta on the four floods that I was seeking!