"Level 9th of Nothing" - Does this sound like Nibbana to you?

Nibbana is not nothing. Nibbana is a blissful spiritual state of freedom from the defilements of the mind, the appropriation of the aggregates as the Self, and freedom from future births (bhava). As you can see, it has a lot of things.

If it is the extinction of consciousness, how can it be blissful?

Read carefully what I wrote. A blissful state of mind that has rid itself of conceit, clinging and future samsaric rebirths.

1 Like

When there is a cessation of consciousness, there is no conscious experience, nor any experience of nibbana. the bliss of nibbana is perceived during life and realized with complete cessation.

Do yo believe in final nibanna after death and is it blissful?

Nibbana as the cessation of future rebirths is experienced as bliss in very life. It is a great blessing not to be reborn again and to be free from the ocean of tears, blood and endless suffering of samsara. Great relief.

To clarify, is nibanna temporary ending at death?

it is the cessation of future bhava, yes. this is a great happiness perceived by an arahant, a great bliss. refuge from all adversity.

The Buddha stated that after death he will neither exist, not exist, both exist and not exist and neither exist nor not exist. Make of that what you will. I take it as an instruction not to argue about these things on internet forums.


He said it because he advocated not having metaphysical views and that not having metaphysical views would undermine our sense of worldly existence. The main example of this was seeing the arising and ceasing of sense perception enabling us to realize that the world neither exists nor not exists.

It is a discussion. People learn by hearing opposing viewpoints and reasoning, not by shutting down discourse.

I’m nobody’s boss, just stating my own opinion. I believe this forum is at its best when people discuss the Pali canon. Again, just an opinion.

It is a discussion about the Pali Canon. The Pali Canon is not consistent and people come to different conclusions about what is says. All I did was ask questions to clarify his position.

Fair enough, that’s not how I construed the conversation. At any rate, I should focus on my own reactions instead of trying to influence what happens on internet forums. My apologies to all concerned.

1 Like

Nibbāna is a descriptive term meaning “extinction”, as when the Buddha offered the example of a flame going out.
We may wish to consider: When a flame goes out, do people ask if it went somewhere, if it’s in some other place, or if it’s blissful?
Or is it just: extinguished. Full stop.

As several Venerables have written on D&D, the words nirodha and khaya occur in the Nikayas more often than nibbāna, and both mean and point to cessation, ending,

When ignorance, clinging, and the defilements are eradicated → nibbāna with residual conditions saupādiseasa nibbāna dhatu while alive and conscious.
With the death of an arahant → full cessation and no rebirth, hence no further/possible dukkha, (anupādisesa nibbāna dhatu, also called parinibbana).
Full cessation = extinguishment, as in the flame example, and words and concepts like “temporary”, “forever”, etc. do not apply.


1 Like

What she describes is like a progression from arupa to nirodha. Moreover, even the levels of nothing have something in common with the Arups and end on the 9th

Dear Raftafarian,

May I ask you for the purpose of your post?

The reason I asked for clarification was that usually you hear the terms parinibbana used for the attainment in life and final nibbana at death. Nikolas spoke of nibanna during life with a cessation of consciousness at death so I was puzzled.

1 Like

Itivuttaka 73 (one of my favourite suttas)

73. More Peaceful

This was said by the Lord…

“Bhikkhus, the formless is more peaceful than the form realm, and cessation is more peaceful than the formless.”

Those beings who reach the form realm
And those established in the formless,
If they do not know cessation
Come back to renewal of being.

Those who fully understand forms
Without getting stuck in the formless,
Are released into cessation
And leave Death far behind them.

Having touched with his own person
The deathless element free from clinging,
Having realized the relinquishment of clinging,
His taints all gone,
The Fully Enlightened One proclaims
The sorrowless state that is void of stain.



That is the bliss :slight_smile: the cessation of impermanence