Hi there,
I talk some time now with a dzogchen practioner. They seem to teach a liberation-with-defilements like hate, greed, jealousy, lust. They seem to teach that it is not necessary to uproot all defilements to make an end to samsara.
Ofcourse I compared this with EBT. I do not think the EBT Buddha would agree. I feel the message of EBT is that right liberation means the uprooting of all defilements. Deep purification. Still, I also do not really understand this principe of uprooting. How can one uproot a tendency to hate that is accumulated over billions of lives? Is uprooting what really happens? Or is it just a way to describe that somehow these defilements are cut of from coming in existence again?
I assume such Dzogchen-masters are not stupid. They have probably good reasons to teach a liberation-with-defilements. It makes me wonder. I cannot really see the principle behind this. Does anybody have a clue?
The person I talked with also was informed by Dzogchen teachers that defilements are just part of our physical condition, and so will persist until we die. HmmmâŚI felt, this idea is very different from EBT because I do not think EBT teach that having a body always implies defilements. I personally belief it is more reasonable to assume that defilements can end because they are caused by the mind, and ignorance is the forerunner.
Is there not a risk in this idea that defilements are no problem?
Still, I assume those masters are not stupid. Does anybody see how there can be liberation (samma vimutti) with defilements? And does anybody see some clues for this in EBT?