SuttaCentral

Limitations of the EBTs


#83

Hi @Thito,

A lot of caveats can be found in Anguttara Nikaya, like for example remembering to keep your attention on one object and not taking it off.

I’ve been trying to find a passage in the Suttas that deals with that for a long time. Do you happen to know which sutta that is? Thanks.


#84

ekaggatá.


#85

This reminded me of AN5.26:

But a meditation subject as a foundation of immersion is properly grasped, attended, borne in mind, and comprehended with wisdom.

That mendicant feels inspired by the meaning and the teaching in that Dhamma, no matter how a meditation subject as a foundation of immersion is properly grasped, attended, borne in mind, and comprehended with wisdom.

Feeling inspired, joy springs up.

Being joyful, rapture springs up.

When the mind is full of rapture, the body becomes tranquil.

When the body is tranquil, one feels bliss.

And when blissful, the mind becomes immersed in samādhi.

This is the fifth opportunity for freedom. …


#86

perhaps this is a good one for this purpose;

The Blessed One said, “Suppose, monks, that a large crowd of people comes thronging together, saying, ‘The beauty queen! The beauty queen!’ And suppose that the beauty queen is highly accomplished at singing & dancing, so that an even greater crowd comes thronging, saying, ‘The beauty queen is singing! The beauty queen is dancing!’ Then a man comes along, desiring life & shrinking from death, desiring pleasure & abhorring pain. They say to him, ‘Now look here, mister. You must take this bowl filled to the brim with oil and carry it on your head in between the great crowd & the beauty queen. A man with a raised sword will follow right behind you, and wherever you spill even a drop of oil, right there will he cut off your head.’ Now what do you think, monks: Will that man, not paying attention to the bowl of oil, let himself get distracted outside?”

“No, lord.”

"I have given you this parable to convey a meaning. The meaning is this: The bowl filled to the brim with oil stands for mindfulness immersed in the body. Thus you should train yourselves: ‘We will develop mindfulness immersed in the body. We will pursue it, hand it the reins and take it as a basis, give it a grounding, steady it, consolidate it, and undertake it well.’ That is how you should train yourselves."Sedaka Sutta: At Sedaka


#87

There are a few suttas about that, the shopkeeper sutta is one:

“So too, possessing three factors, a bhikkhu is capable of achieving a wholesome state not yet attained and of increasing a wholesome state already attained. What three? Here, a bhikkhu diligently applies himself to an object of concentration in the morning, in the middle of the day, and in the evening. Possessing these three factors, a bhikkhu is capable of achieving a wholesome state not yet attained and of increasing a wholesome state already attained.”


#88

Mindfulness of breath sutta or Anapansati sutta. Every instruction has mindfulness of the in or out breath. If this isn’t being focused on one object… In fact any mention of any meditation in the sutras requires attention to the topic of that meditation.


#89

and @unseeingdog

In addition to the shopkeeper sutta I quoted, here is another one having a single/one object

The 6 senses are like 6 animals, you should tie them to a post (single object)

"Just as if a person, catching six animals of different ranges, of different habitats, were to bind them with a strong rope. Catching a snake, he would bind it with a strong rope. Catching a crocodile… a bird… a dog… a hyena… a monkey, he would bind it with a strong rope. Binding them all with a strong rope, he would tether them to a strong post or stake.

"Then those six animals, of different ranges, of different habitats, would each pull toward its own range & habitat. The snake would pull, thinking, ‘I’ll go into the anthill.’ The crocodile would pull, thinking, ‘I’ll go into the water.’ The bird would pull, thinking, ‘I’ll fly up into the air.’ The dog would pull, thinking, ‘I’ll go into the village.’ The hyena would pull, thinking, ‘I’ll go into the charnel ground.’ The monkey would pull, thinking, ‘I’ll go into the forest.’ And when these six animals became internally exhausted, they would stand, sit, or lie down right there next to the post or stake. In the same way, when a monk whose mindfulness immersed in the body is developed & pursued, the eye does not pull toward pleasing forms, and unpleasing forms are not repellent. The ear does not pull toward pleasing sounds… The nose does not pull toward pleasing aromas… The tongue does not pull toward pleasing flavors… The body does not pull toward pleasing tactile sensations… The intellect does not pull toward pleasing ideas, and unpleasing ideas are not repellent. This, monks, is restraint.

“Thus you should train yourselves: ‘We will develop mindfulness immersed in the body. We will pursue it, hand it the reins and take it as a basis, give it a grounding. We will steady it, consolidate it, and set about it properly.’ That’s how you should train yourselves.”

  • SN 35.206

#90

@inb4dead @unseeingdog

Sorry for posting sequentially (shopkeeper sutta, and the 6 animals sutta) instead of one large post, but here is the most technical sutta on having one object:

Suda sutta (SN 47.8) is about a foolish monk who does satipathana but does not get concentrated because he doesn’t pay attention to nimittas.

That foolish, incompetent, unskillful mendicant doesn’t get blissful meditations in this very life, nor do they get mindfulness and situational awareness.
Sa kho so, bhikkhave, bālo abyatto akusalo bhikkhu na ceva lābhī hoti diṭṭheva dhamme sukhavihārānaṃ, na lābhī satisampajaññassa.

Why is that?
Taṃ kissa hetu?

Because they don’t take their mind’s hint.
Tathā hi so, bhikkhave, bālo abyatto akusalo bhikkhu sakassa cittassa nimittaṃ na uggaṇhāti.

Now this requires research because the sutta only refers to citassa nimitta, but if you research other suttas on tranquility, you will see the abyagga nimitta and samatha nimitta arise together and lead to citassa nimitta.

And what fuels the arising of the awakening factor of immersion, or, when it has arisen, fully develops it?
Ko ca, bhikkhave, āhāro anuppannassa vā samādhisambojjhaṅgassa uppādāya, uppannassa vā samādhisambojjhaṅgassa bhāvanāya pāripūriyā?
There are things that are the foundation of serenity and freedom from distraction.
Atthi, bhikkhave, samathanimittaṃ abyagganimittaṃ.

Frequent proper attention to them
Tattha yonisomanasikārabahulīkāro—

fuels the arising of the awakening factor of immersion, or, when it has arisen, fully develops it.
ayamāhāro anuppannassa vā samādhisambojjhaṅgassa uppādāya, uppannassa vā samādhisambojjhaṅgassa bhāvanāya pāripūriyā.

  • SN 46.51

Abyagga means “non-distraction” aka one pointedness. If you are distracted you cannot become concentrated, and so a foolish monk does satipathana without concentration (cough vipassana cough momentary concentration)


#91

Thank you all for your responses. I will be taking the time to read all those suttas individually and get a better understanding.


#92

I think you have made a quite offensive statement if i understood you correctly, which of these do you agree with (if any)?

  1. vipassana as it is practiced in traditions that teach “dry-insight” is the practice of fools
  2. satipatthana [mindfulness & situational awareness of feelings/mind/body/dhamma] cannot be developed without prior attainment of the jhana known as the pleasant abiding [blissful meditation]

I wonder if you are familiar with Samadhi Sutta an4.41

And what is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to mindfulness & alertness? There is the case where feelings are known to the monk as they arise, known as they persist, known as they subside. Perceptions are known to him as they arise, known as they persist, known as they subside. Thoughts are known to him as they arise, known as they persist, known as they subside. This is the development of concentration that, when developed & pursued, leads to mindfulness & alertness.

a) Do you think one needs the pleasant abiding meditation to develop this too?
b) Do you think that the “cough vipassana” doesn’t develop it?
c) Do you think it is developed without concentration?

[2] "Furthermore, when walking, the monk discerns, ‘I am walking.’ When standing, he discerns, ‘I am standing.’ When sitting, he discerns, ‘I am sitting.’ When lying down, he discerns, ‘I am lying down.’ Or however his body is disposed, that is how he discerns it.

e) Do you think one needs the pleasant abiding meditation to develop this too?
f) Do you think that the “cough vipassana” doesn’t develop it?
g) Do you think it is developed without concentration?


split this topic #93

22 posts were split to a new topic: Temp thread to pm


closed #114

opened #115

split this topic #116

10 posts were merged into an existing topic: The Dhamma and Veganism/Vegetarianism