Hi Aminah. Thanks for the thanks!
Dear Mark,
Thanks for the invitation, itâs very generous of you. Sutta Central, however, is exactly the place for Dhamma discussion.
There are, indeed, some fine teachers swimming in these waters, but as far as I understand, much of what happens here is friends sharing perspectives, so the concern of being a teacher or not seems to be null and void.
Happy studies - I trust the lack of official credits in no way preclude the possibility of enjoying a gown one day.
Metta,
Aminah
Dear Aminah,
I like Sutta Central too. It IS a great place for dhamma discussions, and I like that people are gathered at Sutta Central from many different traditions and perspectives. If we only hear from those who agree with our point of view, how can we broaden our perspective?
peace and metta
mark
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Yes, Erik. I agree. And as Bhante Vimalaramsi points out in the above talk, Anupada Sutta (MN 111) talks of satipatthana in each of the jhanas. This is the union of samatha and vipassana in one integrated practice. MN 111 ends with the attainment of arahantship by Ven. Sariputta, who is following this method.
Hi markedsel
Thanks for the great reference, isnât this Sutta linking the 4 foundations of mindfulness to the Jhanas? It seems to indicate that in the Jhanas you practice the foundations, I never read anything like it, specially considering the absence of direct reference to this in MN 10.
smile
dhammarelax
Hello Dhammarelax,
Yes, MN 111 seems to indicate a direct link between the two practices, that of satipatthana and jhana.
If we are following the Visuddhimagga method of meditation, jhana is used primarily as a samatha practice, and the definition of samatha in Vsm being single pointed concentration that supresses all hindrances and absorbs the mind into the object of meditation to the exclusion of all else.
The prestige of the Visuddhimagga in Theravada is such that the jhanas are often translated as âthe absorptionsâ and samadhi is translated as âconcentrationâ, with the type of concentration meant actually being a type of suppression of the hindrances, the aggregates (which also means suppressing the 4 satipatthanas/the 5 aggregates) and all else.
After this super concentrated and purified (through suppression) mind is achieved, there is usually a switch over to vipassana/insight, as it is recognized that suppressing the hindrances is only a temporary solution.
However, this is obviously not the approach being taken by Ven. Sariputta on his three week journey to awakening, and the Buddha is using Sariputtaâs experience as an example to the monks of how to integrate the practices.
That is, how to integrate samatha and vipassana, and integrate the jhanas and the satipatthanas.
In the video, Ven Punnaji states that they are to be practiced all together, and I think he was the one who encouraged Ven. Vimalaramsi to take up a sutta-based practice.
You are correct that MN 10 Satipatthana Sutta sounds a lot different from MN 111 Anupada Sutta. MN 10 is a theoretical analysis, a systematization of the practice for the ideal monk. There is a lot of repetition of language, as this sutta was edited by later generations to include a lot of standardized language and instructions, as so many other suttas were also edited.
MN 111 also has the standard list of jhanas, not found in MN 10, but after the standard list of jhana factors, at each jhana, the actual factors that arose for Ven. Sariputta are also listed. So it is a sort of biographical account, and as such is unique, and has a different feel and flow from the systematized, purely theoretical suttas.
Some scholars believe the extra factors listed by the Buddha in MN 111 are an add on from later generations, but it seems to me that they are precisely what the Buddha was trying to get across here.
It is a lovely sutta, which sums up our practice: Whatever arises, it is impermanent, suffering, and impersonal. Let it go, let it go, one by one as it occurs.
Can anyone think of a better summary of our practice?
MN 10 lets us know what is going to come up for us, what it is that will draw us away from our object of meditation and try to fool us into believing it is I, me, mine and so on.
Everyoneâs past kamma is slightly different, but we are all fundamentally alike, so there will be nothing arising that is not one of the satipatthanas, one of the aggregates. So the Buddha advises us to not be fooled, and to follow Ven. Sariputtaâs example.
Just let it go, relax and open up.
What do you think?
all the best,
mark
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I agree, I had the question of why on MN 10 the Jhanas are not prominent but then I saw MN 125, which seems to be very clear in that the 4 foundations are conducive to Jhana, I would think then that every one of the practices recommended lead to Jhana.
smile
dhammarelax
Thanks for the reference to this sutta (SN46.54) - much appreciated! I think youâre quite right, it offers a very helpful view of bhramavihara practice specifically in the context of the Buddhaâs overall teaching. Itâs also highly intriguing to see the factors of enlightenment brought into the picture.
Thanks again.
Metta,
Aminah
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Hello Aminah,
I see that you found the reference before I tracked it down and sent it to you. I think it is clear that the ascetic wanderers of other sects were practicing Brahmaviharas in a different context of practice, so the result would likely be different. However, doing such practice in any context must be beneficial!
peace and metta
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