MN144 and suffering in awakened beings

[Viveka]

@Ravi This exchange from another topic may clarify the situation

“The mendicant Channa did indeed have such families. But this is not enough for me to call someone ‘blameworthy’. When someone lays down this body and takes up another body, I call them ‘blameworthy’. But the mendicant Channa did no such thing.

You should remember this: ‘The mendicant Channa slit his wrists blamelessly.’”

@Khemarato.bhikkhu

Yes, as I quoted already from SN35.87 , (cited above) the Buddha’s nuance is that suicide is blameworthy if and only if you’re not enlightened. That is the nuance.

Now, unless you have a text critical rationale for questioning the authenticity of SN35.87 (or have an alternative reading for this rather straightforward statement by the Buddha), I think it’s rather dishonest to just wave your hands and say “it’s nuanced” without clarifying that the “nuance” only extends to ariya.

@Brahmali

As always the devil is in the details, or in the interpretation if you like.

First, it is not entirely clear what blameless ( anupavajjā ) means in this context. Upavajjā normally has the very broad meaning of “criticism”. It does not necessarily imply bad kamma or immoral behaviour. In the present context, the criticism is against “taking up another body”, i.e. getting reborn. This doesn’t really say anything about the act itself, whether its bad or good kamma . If we take the sutta at face value, it is rebirth itself that is criticised. In other words, if you still have an opportunity to practice, you should take it.

In many cases where people are suffering tremendously and are close to death, however, I think there is often very little or no scope for practice. At a certain point the pains and problems - especially for ordinary people - may even be detrimental to practice. You might get angry that the doctor or your family is keeping you alive when you have no quality of life and there is no prospect of recovery. Making bad kamma towards the very end of your life is certainly not going to be helpful. Staying alive only has value to the extent that we can use our life for a purpose.