Notes on the segmentation of Pali Vinaya with Brahmali's translation


Text weirdness it is! :grinning: Who knew a thread with such a title would be such a trove of how to understand the texts? Thank you for this and the numerous other explanations!


In case you were ever tempted to rely on the Mahasangiti’s punctuation, I came across this the other day in MN 23:

kammante payojeti kāyena vācāya ‘manasā’



I am very impressed by the Buddha’s praise for brushing teeth, and I am sure all modern day’s dentists would be delighted to read this passage in the Vinaya!

But it seems in the English translation the Buddha just misses out on one tiny little bit: He doesn’t allow toothbrushes for the monastics… :wink:

There’s no English translation for Kd 15 segment 1428, Anujānāmi, bhikkhave, dantakaṭṭhan”ti.


Thank you. Translation added. Maybe I am the one who doesn’t want toothbrushes for monastics. I’ve been caught out …


I haven’t seen unsightly teeth last time I met you…


Kd 15 segment 1598
“fell over as he was getting up after defecatiing”

defecating (only one “i”) :white_check_mark:

Segment 1605
“I allow an gateway.”

a gateway. :white_check_mark:


The chapter with a section on minor matters is finished! Charmingly, in the end it returns to the time of the ordination of Uruvelakassapa that had been left behind somewhere in the Mahakhandhaka in order to lay down rules for monks with ten or more years of seniority.

Reporting this with a big grin—teeth thoroughly brushed: :grin:


:clap: Perhaps you should change name to Khippamitta, “The Fast Friend”!

The next chapter is on its way. This is the Saṅghabhedakkhandaka, the seventeenth chapter, which contains the rather incredible story of Devadatta and more. Enjoy!

Much gratitude for your very efficient work!


You guys are doing amazing!

Just so you know, I am nearly finished fixing the paragraph breaks for the four nikayas. This is still using PO files. When done we will convert to JSON and upload to bilara and begin our translation work there.

This should be ready by the time you’ve finished. So at that point I’ll take the PO files and prepare them for bilara the same way.


Kd 17 segment 44

“While the work was left unfinshed, our fathers and grandfathers have all died.”

… was left unfinished :white_check_mark:


Kd 17 segment 241
“He will be known though his own actions.”

through his own actions. :white_check_mark:

Again in segments 250, 259, 268, and 277. :white_check_mark:

Segment 302
“Just as a plantain banana tree produces fruit for its own destrution and ruin”

… its own destruction and ruin :white_check_mark:


Kd 17 segment 806
“Anyone who come to approve of my teaching is welcome.”

Anyone who comes:white_check_mark:

Segment 808
“Devadatta invited Venerable Sāriputta to sit on seat half the height of his own.”

… on a seat… :white_check_mark:

Segment 898 ff
“If he doesnʼt overcome whatever gain heʼs affected by, corruptions, distress, and fevers may arise. But if he overcomes whatever gain heʼs affected by, he wonʼt have those corruptions, distress, and fevers. If he doesnʼt overcome whatever gain heʼs affected by …”

The second “If he doesnʼt overcome whatever gain heʼs affected by …” is redundant, so I leave it out. Afterwards it continues: “whatever lack of gain heʼs affected by …”. Here should then be added “If he doesnʼt overcome”. :white_check_mark:


But it reverses the preceding “But if he overcomes whatever gain”?
Wouldn’t that make it necessary?


It is because it is repeated in the Pali. Then still comes a list of more items where this part too is then abbreviated.


Sorry, I guess misunderstood this when first reading it. What I meant is that “If he doesnʼt overcome” should be added before “whatever lack of gain heʼs affected by”.


Kd 17 segment 979
“a novice nun … a novice monk …”

In the Pali the order is the reverse: na sāmaṇero saṃghaṃ bhindati, na sāmaṇerī saṃghaṃ bhindati. I leave it up to you, maybe there is a reason for inverting the order.

Interesting question: Nuns can’t cause a schism… at first sight I would understand this as nuns can’t cause a schism in the Bhikkhu order; no-one but a Bhikkhu can split the order of Bhikkhus. Or does it mean nuns cannot cause a schism at all??? Which seems quite unlikely to me. Or else it reflects the already increasing predominance of male influence within Buddhist organizations after the Buddha’s passing away.


A bhikkhunī can only split the bhikkhunī-sangha, not the bhikkhu-sangha, as you say. And it is only a split in the bhikkhu-sangha, it seems, that constitutes a proper schism. I suppose this is in accordance with the ancient Indian gender hierarchy. Whether this goes all the way back to the Buddha, I am not sure. It would require a bit of detailed study to have an educated opinion on this.


Rejoicing in unity, I declare the chapter on schism in the order as FINISHED! :two_hearts:


Yay! Sie sind super-duper! :star_struck: We are getting tangibly close now to the end of the Khandhakas. :grinning:

I hope you don’t mind me sending you the next chapter without further ado. This is the Vattakkhandhaka, chapter 18, which concerns small matters of monastic decorum. I hope you find such matters interesting.


Kd 18 segment 101
“When a resident monk see a newly arrived monk who is more senior”

When a resident monk sees:white_check_mark: