The liberating factor of the path is progressive insight, as described in the perfection of eight kinds of knowledge . Knowing a thing is subject to dissolution is reinforced by deliberate contemplation to conform with reality, which builds from impermanence to step five as the contemplation of dispassion ( Vism. XXI).
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You’re just giving me chapter and verse, but not making a persuasive case.
Progressive meditative stillness might be an alternative route. But I think contemplating impermanence is a supplementary boost to spur one on in dwelling in restful states rather than pursuing higher activity, and therefore more agitating, pleasures.
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Yeah, I don’t recall where the Buddha encourage death contemplation as a way of eradicating fear of death. From what I can recall, when the Buddha is asked how to overcome fear of death, he generally brings up virtue. Take SN 1.75, for instance:
Faithful, gentle, charitable, and kind:
standing on these four principles,
standing on the teaching one need not fear the next world.
I agree. It’s worth pointing out that MN 14 acknowledges that a “Noble Disciple” can understand the Dhamma yet still crave sensuality due to lack of piti and sukkha.
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In my experience there are different degrees of acceptance. Intellectually I can accept the inevitability of old age and death, but accepting it at a deeper level is still a work in progress - I’m aware of a resistance to it, a resistance to change, a resistance to deterioration.
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Buddhist reflections on death, by Bhante G
https://discourse.suttacentral.net/t/book-suggestion/12522
http://www.urbandharma.org/udharma/death.html
Extract from above
"In the Anguttara Nikaya the Buddha has said, “Oh Monks, there are ten ideas,
which if made to grow, made much of, are of great fruit, of great profit for
plunging into Nibbana, for ending up in Nibbana.” Of these ten, one is
death. Contemplation on death and on other forms of sorrow such as old age,
and disease, constitutes a convenient starting point for the long line of
investigation and meditation that will ultimately lead to Reality. This is
exactly what happened in the case of the Buddha. Was it not the sight of an
old man followed by the sight of a sick man and thereafter the sight of a
dead man that made Prince Siddhattha, living in the lap of luxury, to give
up wife and child, home and the prospect of a kingdom, and to embark on a
voyage of discovery of truth, a voyage that ended in the glory of Buddhahood
and the bliss of Nibbana?
The marked disinclination of the average man to advert to the problem of
death, the distaste that arouses in him the desire to turn away from it
whenever the subject is broached, are all due to the weakness of the human
mind, sometimes occasioned by fear, sometimes by tanha or selfishness, but
at all times supported by ignorance (avijja). The disinclination to
understand death, is no different from the disinclination of a man to
subject himself to a medical check-up although he feels that something is
wrong with him. We must learn to value the necessity to face facts. Safety
always lies in truth. The sooner we know our condition the safer are we, for
we can then take the steps necessary for our betterment. The saying, “where
ignorance is bliss it is folly to be wise” has no application here. To live
with no thought of death is to live in a fool’s paradise. Visuddhi Magga
says,
“Now when a man is truly wise,
His constant task will surely be,
This recollection about death,
Blessed with such mighty potency.”
Although this isn’t EBT based, this short 15 minute video speaks to how to respond to the ‘unbearable’ in the present moment, and that the transformation of it is possible, by looking deeply into suffering.
At the 2 minute mark he speaks of having many options for joy in the present moment, that one can choose, though usually people choose to ‘run away’ from unpleasantness . By instead focusing on it, one can care and transform the present moment even if it is unbearable. This reminds me of the Story Ajahn Brahm has told of someone falling from a cliff - and on the way down seeing a beautiful strawberry growing and appreciating it - in the present moment.
It also makes links to virtue towards the end.
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Whenever I think about the sadness and fear we non-arhants experience in connection with death, I like to reflect on the Cunda Sutta (SN 47.13).
There, the venerable Ananda describes in visceral terms his shock when the novice Cunda informs him of his beloved friend and mentor Sariputta’s death:
“Then, Lord, my own body became weak as a creeper; everything around became dim and things were no longer clear to me, when I heard of the final passing away of the Venerable Sariputta”.
Such reactions arise out of ignorance. The only way to prevent them arising is to cut off delusion entirely.
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I wasn’t really thinking about fear of the next world, but fear of dying itself - the dying process.
@DKervick perhaps this passage from Ven Gunaratanas ‘Buddhist reflections on death’ might illustrate how a complete change of understanding can alter perception of the current moment even at the moment of death.
with metta
“Now what is the relevancy of a knowledge of the law of conditionality to the
question of our attitude towards death? Once we thoroughly comprehend the
fact that the will to live proceeds from life to life, we come to appreciate
the view that this life and the next is but one continuous process. So also
the life following and the next thereafter. To one who understands life thus
as nothing more nor less than a long continuous process, there is no more
reason to grieve at death than at life. They are part of the same process –
the process of grasping, the process of giving effect to the will-to-live.
Death is only a change in the thing grasped. The man enriched with the
knowledge of the law of conditionality comprehends that birth induces death
and death induces birth in the round of sansaric life. He therefore cannot
possibly be perturbed at death. To him birth is death and death is birth. An
appreciation of the law of conditionality will reveal to him the importance
of living his life well and when he has lived his life well, death is the
birth of greater opportunities to live a still better life. That is how he
regards death.
…
In truth, birth and death are phases of an unbroken process of grasping.
Death is a departure to those whom the dying man leaves behind. It is also
an arrival to the members of the new family into which he is re-born. It is
death or birth according to the way we look at it, but we can only be
one-way observers. If we observe the death-process, we are not in a position
to observe the birth process, and if we observe the birth process, we are
not in a position to observe the death process. So, birth and death do not
get co-ordinated in our minds as one connected process. By our failure to
see the close sequence of the two processes, the co-ordination of birth with
death or death with birth, we are led to the illusion, or at least the wish,
that we can have the one (birth) without the other (death). We want life but
we do not want death. This is an impossibility. Clinging to life is clinging
to death. The salient feature of life is clinging-grasping – and the
logical result of clinging according to the law of conditionality is death.
If you want to avert death, you have to avert life, you have to reverse the
process of conditionality. This can only be done by abandoning the desire to
cling, the desire to grasp. Let there be no attachment to life. If you
attach yourself unduly to the things of life, happiness you may have for a
brief time, but some day when the things to which you have attached yourself
disintegrate and disappear as they must, by virtue of that mighty law of
change working in conjunction with the equally mighty law of conditionality,
then the very objects of joy become objects of sorrow. You will then agree
with the poet who said, “Earth’s sweetest joy is but pain disguised.” As
great was the joy of attachment so great will be the sorrow of detachment.
Is not this suffering? Is not this wearisome – one day to pursue a phantom
with excitement, next day to abandon it with disgust, one day to be exalted
and the next day to be depressed? How long will your sense of self-respect
allow you to be thrown up and down this way and that, like a foot-ball? Is
it not far more satisfactory, far more dignified, far safer and far wiser to
go through life unattached? If misfortune has to come, it will; if sickness
has to come, it will. We cannot change the events of life but we can
certainly change our attitude towards them. The laws of change and
conditionality will help us here. Fears and sorrows will change into hopes
and joys. To such a one living a life of calm and peace, viewing life with
equanimity, death holds no fears and terrors. Cheerful and unafraid, he can
face the phenomenon of death with fortitude and calm.”
There are many passages like this in the suttas, but they don’t really explain why and in what way Ananda’s reactions and state of mind are based on ignorance. Of course, putting something in the mouth of Ānanda is a standard technique in the suttas for disparaging something as the outlook of the unenlightened worldling. But that’s just a literary technique, not an explanation.
I don’t understand how knowledge of these laws and processes ends our deepest attachments and the suffering that comes from loss. Bhante G sounds like a man trying to talk himself into not having certain normal emotional states through “cognitive” therapy. That seems delusional. The fact that one fully understands the causal interdepencies among various stages in the life process doesn’t mean those stages won’t occur.
Im not denying that there might be ways of successful letting go of all attachments, and thus ending the grief that comes from painfully severed attachments. But it seems doubtful to me that that transformation can come about simply as the result of improved knowledge.
I guess that’s a matter of defining ‘understand’. A functional Buddhist definition could be that ‘understanding’ precisely includes overcoming.
A way how the practice could go is that the practice of impermanence/death-contemplation could ideally have a chain reaction effect on the mind. So that when starting with contemplating the end of my life → the end of my experience → the end of sensual experience → the end of the precondition for emotions → release from consciousness → release from the present moment. For example.
It’s surely not enough just to contemplate the end/death of a specific object (even ‘my life’). There must be some leaps that apply themselves to applications I haven’t considered yet - to specific yet-unknowns. If the practice applies itself only to where I want it to go, it will touch 99% concepts and maybe 1% a vital part of consciousness. The ‘virus’ somehow has to spread.
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O[quote=“Gabriel, post:21, topic:12518”]
I guess that’s a matter of defining ‘understand’. A functional Buddhist definition could be that ‘understanding’ precisely includes overcoming.
[/quote]
That doesn’t seem like any kind of definition to me. It’s a psychological theory.
The chain reaction you spoke about might not have as much to do with penetrating insight as the subsequent insight-based tradition would have us believe.
For example, supone you are addicted to chocolate. Everyday you eat chocolate and wake up craving chocolate, and are dissatisfied until you get your chocolate fix. What can you do? Well one thing you can do is go somewhere where there is no chocolate. You might be frustrated for a while, but eventually your addiction will be broken, whether or not you penetrate through to the true nature of chocolate.
Now suppose you are emotionally addicted to your spouse, children, nice clothes and furniture, fancy food, etc. What can you do? Well you can go out in the forest, wander alone and live on what you can gather. Eventually your addictions will be broken.
However, you might still be addicted to other things, like the pleasures of being alive and the beauty of nature. And you will still be powerfully averse to many things, like the sensation of extreme cold and hunger, snakebites and bug bites, etc.
The Buddhist narrative says these deep cravings and aversions - which are universal across the animal world - can be overcome as well. And maybe they can. But I’m not sure the emphasis the later insight tradition puts on knowledge of conditioned production and other kinds of knowledge is really the key.
I think I don’t understand what you are expressing - do you offer a refutation of ‘insight’ practice, or are you asking something specific that can be answered, or benefiting from reflection without a specific goal in mind?
Well, I have read the texts a lot and looked for deeper explanations of how the cultivation of insight related to the various Buddhist theories of causal dependence and the mind are supposed to lead to the liberation from attachment, and I find they are either lacking or not there at all. So I’m inclined at this point to think that the later tradition might have misunderstood how this liberstion is supposed to occur.
There are texts in which the origin of suffering is explained by causal stories that do not begin with “ignorance” as the foundation of it all, and thus do not imply that suffering can be ended simply by ending ignorance.
Well, the two can be intertwined. I find that I’m a lot less concerned about the physical death of my body when I focus on the next world. My physical body seems like small potatoes compared to all the other realms of existence.
I also find focusing on space (rather than flesh and bones) is helpful. Most “matter” is empty space anyway. The flesh and bones is just the tip of the iceberg.
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In the Suttas, getting rid of ignorance happens after Samadhi is perfected. That’s why Arhats are described as accomplished in wisdom, but Anagamis are accomplished in Samadhi with still some ignorance remaining.
It sounds like you are confusing right view (which is at the very beginning of the eight fold path, and is seen directly at the stream winner stage) with eradication of ignorance.
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It seems that some defilements are simply to be abandoned by patient endurance. Basically I think you just practice getting used to unpleasant stuff and relaxing the mind in whatever situation you find yourself in.
“What taints, bhikkhus, should be abandoned by enduring? Here a bhikkhu, reflecting wisely, bears cold and heat, hunger and thirst, and contact with gadflies, mosquitoes, wind, the sun, and creeping things; he endures ill-spoken, unwelcome words and arisen bodily feelings that are painful, racking, sharp, piercing, disagreeable, distressing, and menacing to life. While taints, vexation, and fever might arise in one who does not endure such things, there are no taints, vexation, or fever in one who endures them. These are called the taints that should be abandoned by enduring. - SuttaCentral
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In youth, abilities increase and horizons extend. With age, the reverse happens. For example, I am going blind. Accepting this reversal as inevitable is crucial to avoid suffering. I don’t need to be blind to apprehend the reality of going blind and to deal with it directly. So yes, it really does make it less painful to simply accept the reality of old age and fading away. In accepting that future decline, there is peace now. In rejecting that future decline, there is only suffering.
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If you discovered tomorrow that a 100% reliable and inexpensive cure for your blindness had been developed, would you take it?
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