Open question to Bhante Sujato - Reform of Vinaya Pitaka

I have not seen or heard such horrific thing in Taiwan , Singapore , Vietnam , Malaysia , Indonesia , Hong Kong , Japan , Korea , Sri Lanka , Cambodia , Laos and Myanmar and Nepal and Tibet !

Do you have insider information on what happens in temples?

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Do you ?

It is very impolite to answer question with question. What is your intention here? Do you wan’t to genuinely get to know something, or do you want to bash people because what they say doesn’t fit your worldview?

Don’t answer to me, answer to yourself in your heart, what are your intentions?

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I do to a degree. I have seen how (rarely) some narcissistic people who cannot live in society join the sangha and treat those people, including lay people, very badly. Such ‘predators’ are found in every group of people everywhere, according to psychiatry. While most people are benign, when they come under the control of such people they also turn on the powerless, thinking ‘this is normal’. So I’m not surprised that it might exist.

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I am curious why do you think otherwise ?
I said I never seen or heard something horrific with regard to the above statements , @Mat asked me insider news that is questionable in the first place ? This is serious accusations ! Raping could be jailed and there will be police reports and newspapers and television will have the news !
And accused me of impolite is attacking a person ! I am pointing to the fact that if such allegations things such as raped done by a monk is not supported with proof are not acceptable ! This never concerned with fitting my world view !
Trying to defend another person or something without bases is a kind of protective behavior that is clearly biased .
I have seen many biases and prejudices happened in this forum , you have no right so don’t question my intention !
If you can prove to me where and which monks raped any nuns , provided with proof , perhaps I can accept it without question !
Otherwise , don’t expect what ever statement anybody says can simply be accepted !

Ps .
If there is no proof of raping by a monk , that is a very serious wrong speech !

As my Flemish godmother used to say: “Gebraden patrijsen vliegen niemand in de mond,” “Partridges don’t fly into anyone’s mouth ready-roasted.”

With Google you can easily find examples from all the named countries.

“The monkhood has been beset by cases of rape and other violent crimes in the past year. Cults and Religion Ministry spokesman Seng Somony said the latest case could serve as an opportunity to put measures in place to prevent future attacks at pagodas.”



Thank you . I googled for Taiwan , Singapore , Indonesia , Malaysia ,
At least 4 countries with no monk
case to be found .

The raping occurs is not because of the Hierarchical Vinaya , or do you think otherwise ?
So , the question is everywhere has this kind of calamity but not necessarily related to the reason cause by Vinaya !

I think I will stop at here ,
** The Vinaya setup by the Buddha is in questions and jeopardy !?**
Not me !
Therefore , let’s others handle it !

Remember it was not rape alone, but also “beating, emotional manipulation, and other horrific form of abuse” that was mentioned. I am not myself qualified to give an informed judgment about whether there is anything in Vinaya that can lead a monk to think that this kind of treatment of women is acceptable. It needs to be addressed by those with the requisite expertise in Vinaya and ethology.


This happens in every family , society ,
Even democratic and liberal countries , regardless of Vinaya . Of course , people might take any opportunity to exploit others with or without vinaya . There were few monks happens to be Arahant in the Buddha times were Raped by lay women !

As I said , I will just leave it here .

Regards .

Exactly. It’s a mental health issue- normal women and men get on jointly, on the job at hand, of attaining Nibbana. I see no option but to expel narcissists and Psychopathic PD people as they have no insight. They need help, not power.

This monk Galaboda Gnanasara is known for his hate speech and inciting murderous violence against muslims in Sri Lanka. Only people with psychopathic traits do such things, IMO. Here’s him being arrested again and showing no remorse:


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This is a serious allegation against monks and has to be substantiated. I never heard this sort of abuse for nuns in Sri Lanka. Only thing I heard was the child abuse by monks.
But again this problem is nothing to do with the Vinaya. At least adults (nuns) can report the matter to the police. ( However many household abuses of women in Sri Lanka is not reported to the police)

Many victims of abuse do not report these sorts of crimes as they believe it’s their fault. Especially when it’s perpetrated by someone within their hierarchical structure. In the Christian church system these reports are further covered up. So it doesn’t surprise me this isn’t widely reported.


So how can we solve the problem?. We are going round and round.

There is no great mystery: accept the reality of the problem, don’t blame victims, and support those who are doing something to change it.


What I see in this particular case is that the victims are blaming the support system. Instead of using the support system. They want to change the support system.
What am I missing here?

Exactly. It’s the same blaming one sees in many contexts when problems relating to gender or ethnic groups are raised.

You seem to be missing that, as far as the Bhikkhunis and would-be-Bhikkhunis are concerned, the support-system is broken.

I’ve only ever managed to have a conversation with one Theravada Bhikkhuni (as opposed to many dozens of Bhikkhus). Clearly, then, I cannot give you much first-hand information about the problems that these women face. However the fact that they are so rare is a clue that there are problems.


What we have to do to reinstate the support system?
Is there a plan?
Say the first - Increase awareness (that is what we are doing now)
What is next?

I’m sorry, but I really don’t know what you’re referring to here.

The problem is that the system does not support women. If you don’t see that, you need to start listening to the voices of the women who have been telling you that, clearly and repeatedly.


Why do you keep asking the same questions that have already been well answered?