Thanks for all your work on this. It’s really handy.
I would recommend removing Ken and Visakha’s translation of the Jataka. As I understand it they just updated the Cowel translation on their own and then gave it to people who know Pali to make sure it doesn’t deviate too much. Since the Cowel translation is very available, I don’t see the need to include theirs. Also, they don’t indicate what is verse and what is commentary (at least in their most recent publication). About 9 years ago they expanded their original anthology to include much more. It’s a good set that I recommend to lay people. But as far as being a strict translation of the Pali, not so much. Perhaps others more knowledgeable could comment.
Also, I recommend ordering the KN as it is on Sutta Central, placing the more traditional sutta collections at the top. The traditional order I am familiar with is Khp, Dhp, Ud, Itv, Snp, Vv, Pv, Thag, Thig, Ja, but Sutta Central’s is slightly different.
The old translation is hardly this, either. I don’t know, the purpose is to render the stories readably, so perhaps it is better considered as an adaptation or derivative. So long as people know what they’re getting in for, I guess?
Well, the Jataka is further down, but apart from that it’s the same. For the record, the sequence on SC is taken from the Mahasangiti edition, although they organize a couple texts a little differently (splitting Jataka in two, for example).
Godakumbura’s Apadana is not an English translation. It is only a transcript of the Commentary into romanized form.
I have added into the archive.org source as well as in the list here the complete Apadana Commentary translation from U Lu Pe Win. I found only website form (in two different websites) but no original book. Let me know if you know/find it.
Bhante did any author study chronology of commentaries?
I have difficulty now in believing all nikayas was from 1 council. Because Petakopadesa with all corruption is still indicating to me, that it must have come from a time that suttas as nikayas was not highly developed yet. I find the readings of parallel sutta in it also more simple. For example. The sutta on the 3 concentration. The Petakopadesa just mentions one time concentration. The nikayas seemed the same sutta as was remembered by a monk. Nikayas mentions concentration for each concentration. It seems nikaya was made from monks memory when the first versions was lost in famine and war.
And actually they being few couldn’t have written down all what was lost from memory. They tried there best. From comparison they did good but you see the new generation influence. Change of words chosen.
But besides that I’m just interested to know some of them chronology
That’s a good question, Ratana. Abhidhammatthasaṅgaha is shown as a Ṭīkā by the Chaṭṭhasaṅgāyanā Tipiṭaka Software (CST), which is made based on the decisions of the Sixth Buddhist Council of Theravada Buddhism.
I suppose that the meaning of Ṭīkā was then understood as a Commentary to a Commentary, rather than as the official Subcommentary. Abhidhammatthasaṅgaha, considering the meaning of the word, is the summary of Abhidhammattha meanings. Perhaps akin to the Pañcapakaraṇa Aṭṭhakathā, that is a single book that consists of commentaries to five Abhidhamma books. Or perhaps like the Dasuttara Sutta of Dīgha Nikāya, which also is a summary of suttas - but it’s considered to be a sutta on its own.
Anyway, those are my assumptions and all assumptions about history, historicity, and veracity of scriptures, regardless which scholar writes & publishes them, are just bubbles that are ready to burst. I don’t know.
Ven ledi wrote a Tika to it so it seems to me that it’s atthakattha not Tika
in the Chaṭṭhasaṅgāyanā Tipiṭaka Software the original list-like version of Abhidhammatthasaṅgaha is followed by its Ṭīkā as if the two books were two chapters of the same book. They both occur in the same file/text together, first the original and then the interpretations.
how do you call sub sub commentary in pali?
Anuṭīkā. I suppose that a commentary to sub-sub-commentary would add another anu (anuanuṭīkā), and so forth with its further commentaries. But so far I have seen officially published only up to anuṭīkā level.
what Tika do you recommend for beginner the mahatika or this abhidhammatthasangaha?
I am sorry, but coming originally from the modern Sri Lankan tradition, which is highly critical even about the Commentaries, I am not a fan of reading Subcommentaries (although I’ve read quite a number of them and still refer to them whenever needed … ) .
I believe that Abhidhamma is an important source of studying and understanding the Buddha’s Teachings, but personally I’d recommend sticking to the suttas and their Commentaries.
My personal experience is that Sub-Commentaries rarely provide a reliable insight into the original teachings. Rather, again according to my own experience, they contain somewhat novel ideas and decisions not supported anywhere in the main or commentarial scriptures. Most often they copy text of Commentaries or suttas as explanation for other texts within the scriptures, where such reminder may help the reader in understanding. Sometimes, sub-commentaries also summarize and point out troubles found in Commentaries, such as the contradicting ideas on progressive disappearance of the Buddha’s Teachings.
Abhidhammatthasaṅgaha has been selected by Buddhist masters of the old as the best summary of the Buddha’s teachings. Ledi Sayadaw was very critical about its official Sub-Commentary and wrote a list of the fallacies included there in, I think over a hundred. He was then severely criticized for this open-mindedness by several Burmese masters. The list of those problems is still only in Burmese, I think. If you are enthusiastic about learning Abhidhammatthasaṅgaha’s meanings, you may like to proceed to Ledi Sayadaw’s work and compare it with the official subcommentary.
Visuddhimagga’s Commentary (Mahāṭīkā) is, together with the original Visuddhimagga, classified as “non-canonical text”, añña. Both the original text as well as its interpretations are insightful texts which provide a further strain on meditation teachers in their teaching careers. Most importantly, the further specifications of the qualities possessed by Enlightened persons and descriptions of matter and mind seem to be appropriate for discussion, rather than as holy Truths. Pa Auk Sayadaw and his students, however, do not discuss the axiomatic “decisions” of Visuddhimagga and its Mahāṭīkā interpretations, a move that I find troublesome in both exegetical and practical sense.
Anyway, I enjoy studying all the subcommentaries and cannot dare to suggest which one is better. However, rather than as practical guidelines, I take them with a large grain of salt, for educational enrichment.
bhante, I have dm you but I think there’s a problem in your account that you can’t read it so I will just copy it to here, hopefully you can read it here
I want to know where I can find the pali version of the manual of insight as in the book it’s written there “translated from Burmese and Pali” but I have never found the Pali version of it, the only book of ven mahasi that I found has Pali version is visuddhinanakatha or progress of insight so I am confused as for reference the attached image is below
also I have a dhamma project bhante, I want to translate visuddhimagga mahatika from Burmese into English because I want to understand visuddhimagga better, the second reason is I consider ven mahasi as my teacher and as he heavily referenced mahatika instead of abhidhammatthasangaha I think I could understand ven mahasi’s teaching better if I could understand mahatika, I noticed that you upload the partial English version of mahatika bhante so I think you know the importance of mahatika more than i do, I also want to know how much I should donate to help you finish the project I know that monk don’t receive money but I really want to contribute I can’t resist my self
bhante please pardon my bad English, English is not my native language, if somehow I hurt you please understand I have no intention to do so, that’s just my English
thanks bhante, I am looking forward to hear from you
may you be happy bhante
may you don’t lose what you gain
may you be free from suffering
may you stay equanimious at all times
I think that that Chapter 6 of the book is essentially the “Progress of Insight”. Perhaps that explains it, as it would make sense to consult both Pali and Burmese versions of that material for clarification.
Thank you very much for your intention to support my work. At this point I dedicate myself to teaching meditation, so there is no opportunity for me to translate.
I do have Mahatika books in Burmese translation, the full version, but I can’t imagine that me or anyone I know would translate it. If there is any need to revise or edit such translation after someone else has done it, I’d be most happy to help. I will remember your request and if there is an opportunity I will make effort to accomplish this. However, it would be better if Burmese Dhamma enthusiasts make this translation and then native English speakers do the proofreading. Mahatika is an essential resource for Pa Auk method, so Pa Auk as well as Mahasi practitioners may like to consider translating it.
Dear Dhamma friends,
I have added the information on the anthology of Jatakas by Ken and Visakha Kawasaki. This three-volumed collection contains about a half of all Jatakas in concise form. All three volumes are available in hardcover form as well as in Kindle format.
Ledi Sayadaw’s 245 criticisms of Sumangalasāmi’s commentary are all contained in his Paramatthadīpanī, which is available in romanised Pali at tipitaka.org.
There’s also a Thai translation by Sayadaw Gandhasārābhivamsa in pdf format.
Though the criticisms aren’t indexed or mātikā-ized, they’re easy enough to spot as each is introduced in one of two ways:
Vibhāvaniyaṃ pana “blah blah blah” taṃ na yujjati (or taṃ na yuttaṃ).
“But in the Abhidhammatthavibhāvanī it says “blah blah blah,” but this is untenable.”
Vibhāvaniyaṃ pana “blah blah blah” taṃ na sundaraṃ.
“But in the Abhidhammatthavibhāvanī it says “blah blah blah,” but this is inelegantly phrased.”
It’s only the former that Ledi deemed to be erroneous. The latter he deemed to be correct but worded in a clumsy or ambiguous manner.
No, they were first published in 2011. Originally they were published by the Buddhist Publication Society. Then the authors published the ebooks independently on Amazon. I don’t know the specifics but after that BPS withdrew as publisher. Prior to 2011 they had released an even smaller anthology as Bodhi Leafs or Wheel Publications.
Umm… I don’t think concise would be the proper description. My understanding is that they are for the most part simply a heavy editing of the much older Cowell series that is in the public domain. They contain the frame stories. The only oddity I recall is that the verses are translated in prose. In any case, it is good to have on the list. Bhante Anandajoti helped with reviewing their work if I’m not mistaken.
It seems no English translation on Sāratthappakāsinī, ‘Revealer of the Essential Meaning’, the title of Buddhaghosa’s commentary on the Saṃyutta-nikāya.
That is some fierce criticism. I suppose that their version should look like a heavy editing of the Cowell series if the Cowell series are trustworthy translation of the Pali text and theirs is as well. But in fact this similarity doesn’t have to be conditional, again, if both Cowell’s series and Kawasaki anthology are faithful to the Pali text. The Acknowledgement of Volume 1 mentions that the entire manuscript was read, corrected and critiqued by ven. Ānandajoti.
Please, note, that the three volumes of this anthology contain nice illustrations to each story.
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