On a side note, in climbing, we shout commands to each other distinguished by number of syllables, not vowel intonations. For example, “up rope!” vs. “slack!” are opposite and should never be confused. Confusing climbing commands can lead to suffering.
4 Likes
an3.20: It’s when a shopkeeper is a skilled in buying and selling products.
Should be “when a shopkeeper is skilled”, similar to what Karl pointed out above for an3.15.
4 Likes
an3.22: Evamevaṃ kho, bhikkhave, tayome gilānūpamā puggalā santo saṃvijjamānā lokasmiṃ.
an3.22: In the same way, these three people similar to patients are found among the mendicants.
Should be “are found in the world” instead of “are found among the mendicants”.
3 Likes
Indeed it should. This goes back to my more innocent days when I wasn’t very familiar with Pali or Sanskrit (or any other sort of Indic language). I’ll be getting to updating this translation completely in a couple months.
2 Likes
Gaṅgā. The river’s not only grammatically feminine, but naturally so too, being the daughter of Himavat and Menā.
4 Likes
Suspected error:
Where: AN 5.18
What: The underlined words “the good of both” as shown in the screenshot below.
Why: The Sutta says “for the welfare of others, but not their own”.
3 Likes
In Bodhirajakumara sutta:
raised his joined palms toward the Buddha
Atha kho, rājakumāra, brahmā sahampati ekaṃsaṃ uttarāsaṅgaṃ karitvā yenāhaṃ tenañjaliṃ paṇāmetvā maṃ etadavoca:
I think it should be “towards me”. This is probably a copy paste error since this is a reconstructed sutta.
There are a couple others in that same section.
1 Like
Sometimes one refers to oneself in the third person as emphasis for non-particular reference. I.e., third person self-reference can be used to clarify that “this particular sentient being talking is an example of a class of beings”. This is what Karl does sometimes.
2 Likes
In SN 4.17 we find:
But a mindful disciple of the Buddha has transcended all that.
Having gone beyond Māra’s sovereignty, they shine like the sun.” (virocatī)
I guess it should be ‘he’, but just now realize the ‘they’ could be an inclusive singular, i.e. to include he & she?
3 Likes
AN3.36:14.1: Tamenaṃ, bhikkhave, nirayapālā saṃvesetvā kudhārīhi tacchanti.
AN3.36:14.1: Then the wardens of hell thrown them down and hack them with axes. …
Should be: the wardens of hell throw them down…
4 Likes
In a sentence in the sutta With Hatthaka (1st), the English misstates who is speaking:
4.2Then after the meal, on his return from alms-round, he went to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side, and told him of what he had discussed with the householder Hatthaka. The Buddha said:
Atha kho so bhikkhu pacchābhattaṃ piṇḍapātapaṭikkanto yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavantaṃ abhivādetvā ekamantaṃ nisīdi. Ekamantaṃ nisinno kho so bhikkhu bhagavantaṃ etadavoca:
(
SO happy to catch one!)
5 Likes
I am afraid, I may have to disappoint you:
AN8.23:4.2: Atha kho so bhikkhu pacchābhattaṃ piṇḍapātapaṭikkanto yena bhagavā tenupasaṅkami; upasaṅkamitvā bhagavantaṃ abhivādetvā ekamantaṃ nisīdi. Ekamantaṃ nisinno kho so bhikkhu bhagavantaṃ etadavoca:
AN8.23:4.2: Then after the meal, on his return from alms-round, he went to the Buddha, bowed, sat down to one side, and told him of what he had discussed with the householder Hatthaka. The Buddha said:
Then it continues:
AN8.23:7.1: “Sādhu sādhu, bhikkhu.
AN8.23:7.1: “Good, good, mendicant!
The text in-between, i.e. what the mendicant says, is not repeated in the translation. Ekamantaṃ nisinno kho so bhikkhu bhagavantaṃ etadavoca is translated as "and told him … ". And “The Buddha said” already refers to the Buddha’s reply afterwards.
That’s how I understand it, at least. The dukkha of abbreviation! 
4 Likes
Here it’s the dukkha of finding a sentence in the translated paragraph missing, and another sentence inserted there that is later implied but doesn’t actually appear anywhere in the Pali. (When I began to read the next untranslated paragraph in Pali it was confusing.) Wouldn’t it be better if the inserted sentence were moved below the material left out in English and given parentheses to indicate that it doesn’t appear in the original text?
Or are Bhante’s other translations loose that way, giving the gist instead of a sentence by sentence translation? (I don’t read Pali well enough to know, this text just happened to be simple enough to discern the discrepancy.)
Edit: Correction, I see now that nothing was left out. So my issue here is just the insertion of “The Buddha said,” which is premature and does not appear anywhere in the original.
5 Likes
Yes, this is not in the Pali. I guess Bhante @sujato added it in order to make the context clear after leaving out everything that is repeated from the previous conversation in the Pali. But maybe we should rather leave the question to him to answer.
The discrepancy is that the degree of abbreviation is different in the root text and the translation. This is more obvious when viewing English/Pali line by line.
3 Likes
And happy to have you catching!
Just a general comment on this thread, we are still transitioning to our new translation platform, so I am waiting until that is ready, hopefully by the end of the year, before doing all these corrections. So please keep them coming!
So yes, you end up resorting to some such strategies when you do anything that isn’t a purely literal word-for-word translation.
The approach I take with such passages is this.
The Pali has a passage that generally deals with the “situation” of the discussion. In the Pali, this says that the mendicant came to the Buddha, sat down, and spoke to him. It then follows on by repeating the whole passage in full.
Now, as a rule, I try to avoid repeating passages within suttas more than necessary. In this case the repetition seems unnecessary, so I leave it out. But the reader needs to know that the passage was repeated, so I say that. In many suttas, it will identify the speaker’s response, but in this case it is implied. Perhaps this is because the response (“Sādhu sādhu, bhikkhu”) is a common one. But I felt that the English was confusing without identifying the speaker, so I inserted that.
The question then becomes, where do you insert it? It could be in the last segment of the previous speaker’s utterance; or at the beginning of the Buddha’s response; or as part of the “situational” description. I choose to include it as part of the situational description, as it is semantically in the same ballpark as the Pali text: it’s a short phrase clarifying who is speaking to whom.
One of the things with our segmented translations is that generally speaking any translated text must correspond with something in the Pali. Usually the translation simply renders the Pali, but there are many exceptions, as there always must be when dealing with natural language. It is technically possible to insert extra segments in the translation that are not in the Pali, but this is complex and we try to reserve it for headings only.
On the use of parentheses:
Right. And this is why we give the Pali so you can always see.
5 Likes
(disregard below. it was addressed in later posts)
Actually, this is tricky, since it is followed in English by:
“Good, good, mendicant!
Bhante omitted the translation of what Hatthakka repeated in Pali. Perhaps “The Buddha said” could be moved down to segment 7.1?
1 Like
Dear Bhante, thanks for patiently and thoroughly explaining why the inserted sentence was hung there. It’s clear now that segmenting all but mandates the placement, and bracketing some inserted words would cultivate a false impression of precision. This was very informative. Much appreciated!
Edit: Oh and thanks also for managing to be very encouraging while showing there was no error.
3 Likes
Hi,
In the New Concise Pali English Dictionary “aññāṇa” is defined as “knowledge”, but in other dictionaries it is defined as “ignorance”. Does the word occur in the EBTs or commentaries meaning “knowledge”? If it does, it is surely worthy of a note in the New Concise Pali English Dictionary. Otherwise, the definition is wrong.
David
3 Likes