Please report any errors or typos!

[Brahmali]

@Gillian

However I do see how Ven Sujato’s choice makes a stronger statement that suggests how difficult these forces are to throw off.

This is true.

One of the principles of translation, however, especially if a passage is ambiguous, is that you would normally interpret it according to the most common meaning. For instance, it could be argued from Nikāya passages that you can crave to crave. Yet when the word craving is used without context it is likely to refer to something more common, such as craving for sensual pleasures.

The same thing is true of the words used here. It can certainly be argued that we attach to attachments (that is, we are shackled to them, which is basically the same thing), but the normal sutta meaning is that we are attached to worldly things or the five khandhas. I would argue such normal meanings should prevail when translating ambiguous passages.

[Gillian]

@Brahmali

I would argue such normal meanings should prevail when translating ambiguous passages.

Yes. Always give the least marked interpretation. I’m not able to interpret the Pali directly I’m afraid.

[majjhima]

I am trying to translate MN101 from English. And I found a troublesome translation that I’m not sure which is the correct one. Because the meaning is rather different.

Sujato’s translation MN101.14.1 :

If at a time of intense exertion you did not experience painful, sharp feelings due to overexertion,

and if without intense exertion you did experience such feelings, it would be appropriate for the Jain venerables to declare this.

Yes > No
No > Yes

While Thanissaro’s translation:

“‘If it were the case that when there was fierce striving, fierce exertion, you felt fierce, sharp, racking pains from harsh treatment;

and when there was no fierce striving, no fierce exertion, you still felt fierce, sharp, racking pains from harsh treatment,

Yes > Yes
No > Yes

For Bhikkhu Bodhi’s translation, I believe it is following the pattern of Thanissaro’s. The pāli that is being translated is:

Sace, āvuso nigaṇṭhā, yasmiṃ vo samaye tibbo upakkamo hoti tibbaṃ padhānaṃ, na tibbā tasmiṃ samaye opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyetha;

yasmiṃ pana vo samaye na tibbo upakkamo hoti na tibbaṃ padhānaṃ, tibbā tasmiṃ samaye opakkamikā dukkhā tibbā kaṭukā vedanā vediyetha;

Is bhante Sujato’s translation the correct one? I suppose. But I couldn’t grasp the whole meaning of the passage with that translation.

While for the others translation, it should mean if the pain is still there both with or without exertion, then it is appropriate to say everything felt comes from past deeds.

[sabbamitta]

@majjhima

I am trying to translate MN101 from English.

Into which language?

[majjhima]

I feel that you’re excited by the mention of translation . But I’m just translating some suttas for discussion, not the whole thing. Maybe someday! I need to learn pāli first!!! I’m translating bhante Sujato’s work into Bahasa Indonesia.

[karl_lew]

@sabbamitta

The rice is threshed twice here.

Twice threshing does happen.

If each threshing removes 80% of chaff, then twice threshing removes 96%

[Brahmali]

@Sujato, I am assuming you are still taking feedback on your translation. So here goes.

I’ve just been looking at the concluding part of the Mahāparinibbāna Sutta (DN 16), where we find the following Pali sentence:

“bhagavāpi khattiyo ahampi khattiyo, ahampi arahāmi bhagavato sarīrānaṃ bhāgaṃ, ahampi bhagavato sarīrānaṃ thūpañca mahañca karissāmī”ti.

Now you render the final phrase as “I will build a large monument for them.” I suspect you have been translating a bit too fast, because the repeated ca construction (thūpañ-ca mahañ-ca) does not allow for such a translation. It seems maha in this context means something like a “memorial service”:

“I will build a monuments for them and conduct a memorial service.”

[sujato]

Yes, you’re right. Noting that the references to this term in the dict are all later texts, I’m wondering if this is the only occurrence in the EBTs. Although I seem to remember it in the Vinaya somewhere.

[Brahmali]

Yes indeed, the Vinaya does have a related word, gaṅgāmahiya, found in the Cammakkhandhaka (Kd.5) and also in the Bhikkhunīkkhandhaka, (Kd.20). In the context it could very well refer to some sort of festival or fair. Here is the context:

At that time the monks from the group of six traveled in vehicles, sometimes pulled by women with men inside, at other times pulled by men with women inside. People complained and criticized them, “It’s as if they’re at the Ganges festival.”

They told the Buddha and he said, “You should not travel in a vehicle. If you do, you commit an offense of wrong conduct.”

It might well be that with the advancing urbanisation of ancient India such festivals started to spring up towards the end of the life of the Buddha, or shortly thereafter. It seems quite plausible that these were a new development at the time.

[sabbamitta]

In the essay A Reader’s Guide to the Pali Suttas:

The Saṁyutta Nikāya consists of 52 such collections.

There are 56 of them.

[sabbamitta]

SN1.1:1.2: At one time the Buddha was staying near Sāvatthī in Jeta’s Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika’s Monkery.

Anāthapiṇḍika’s monastery

[karl_lew]

@sabbamitta

Monkery

[Sabbe_Dhamma_Anatta]

[Coemgenu]

Ud 2.10, ocurred --> occurred

[Aminah]

https://suttacentral.net/an8.91-117/en/sujato

[sabbamitta]

In suttacentral/bilara-data:

“an4.6:9.2”: “who has much learning, and has memorized the teachings;”,
“an4.6:9.3”: “like a pendant of river gold,”,

Lacking spaces at the end of lines.

[AdrianMagno]

AN 3.36: Messengers of the Gods

Then the wardens of hell thrown them down and hack them with axes. …

[sabbamitta]

AN4.10:7.2: Idha, bhikkhave, ekacco diṭṭhīnaṃ samudayañca atthaṅgamañca assādañca ādīnavañca nissaraṇañca yathābhūtaṃ pajānāti.
AN4.10:7.2: It’s when you don’t truly understand views’ origin, ending, gratification, drawback, and escape.

It’s when you truly understand…

[Akaliko]

Should be “imperfect” rather than “imprefect” in first stanza of Cūḷabyūha Sutta Snp 4.12.
https://suttacentral.net/snp4.12/en/mills

Question
Each attached to their own views,
They dispute, and the experts say,
“Whoever knows this understands the Dhamma,
Whoever rejects it is imprefect.”

[ERose]

SuttaCentral

Whatsoever monk takes a couch, chair, stool, blanket, pillow or mat belonging to a community of monks and laying it himself on fehe earth

Seems a typo; “the”?

SuttaCentral

I shall not pour out pour out the remains of a meal from the inside of my bowl.

doubled phrase?
.