Rebirth, rebirth, rebirth

Thanks for asking this. To me this where we come to the crux of the matter. We need to make the path practical. The question of why outlook matters, on the personal level, is what right view is all about.

So far as rebirth is concerned, these are some of the ways I make it matter in my own life.

Rebirth reminds me that most things in this life are like borrowed goods, to use the Buddha’s simile at MN 54. It all has to go – at the latest when we die, but often much earlier. This includes our material possessions, our friends and family, our physical body, but also all aspects of our personality that are tied up with this world, such as our social status, our education, our sense of achievement, and any other aspect of our sense of identity that relates to this life. There is not much left! The one thing that remains as you move on to another life is the quality of mind that you have developed in this life. Create a beautiful mind in this life, and that’s what you take with you. The idea of taking a bright, joyful, and wise mind into the future is extremely appealing to me, and no doubt to many others. (And, as an aside, to me this is really the essence of what kamma is all about.)

I have often seen the counter-argument that cultivating our minds is the right thing to do regardless of whether there is rebirth. I can only agree with this. The point, rather, is that adding rebirth to the equation dramatically alters the balance of our focus. If this life is all there is, then it is reasonable to emphasise achievements that belong to this life. In other words, enjoyment of the immediate pleasures of this life carry a lot of weight, especially since most of us do not know the extent to which mental development is possible. If we doubt our own ability to change our mental world for the better - and most people would have some degree of doubt about this - then focusing on the more tangible pleasures of this world makes eminent sense. With rebirth the emphasis changes from what we achieve in this life to how we achieve it. It is the how that determines our mental development, whereas the what is the borrowed goods.

This does not mean that we don’t care about this life. On the contrary, it means that we deepen the care considerably. If the how of life is what matter, then our every act becomes important. Circumspection and mindfulness in all our activities, including our thinking, becomes what our lives are all about. It draws us into the present moment and actually makes us more alive. In the end it increases our quality of life far more than living according to YOLO. The problem is that it is very difficult to see that a strong emphasis on mental culture is the best way of living. Rebirth helps us reorient in this direction, often powerfully so, as can be seen from the sutta similes given in the OP.

For many the above is probably enough for rebirth to play an important role in their lives. But there is another aspect to rebirth that is more profound and more difficult to see. This is that rebirth is inherently suffering. At AN 10.65 Ven. Sāriputta defines suffering as rebirth. Part of this is that saṃsāra has no purpose. Our present lives tend to feel purposeful, but from a saṃsāric bird’s-eye view this is an illusion. We are not actually going anywhere; as I have mentioned above, it’s all just a bad version of Groundhog Day. So there is a discrepancy between how we feel about our lives and the overall reality. Having the right outlook is about reducing the distance between how we look at the world and how the world actually works. Seeing things rightly, or as rightly as possible, is a prerequisite for making wise decisions. When we see things rightly, life regains its purpose, but it is a radically different one from what it used to be. Making an end of rebirth becomes the purpose of existence.

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Thanks for this, Ven.

There are so many interpretations and readings that are being pushed now, that the straightforward message from the suttas has been somewhat relegated to the sidelines.

  • The Buddha’s teaching of rebirth is a superstitious artifact from the culture of his times, which he adopted.
  • It was used by him as a teaching device to give a sense of urgency to people.
  • It was just a manner of description, since words can describe only so much. It should be understood in a metaphysical/momentary way.
  • He was just hallucinating when he described his recollection of past lives on the night of his Awakening.
  • Despite the Buddha’s rejection of the idea of a Creator God, kamma and rebirth is the same as in Christianity, so there.
  • The teaching is twofold - so for mundane people, the mundane teaching of rebirth was taught.

And so on. The simple reading of the suttas which shows someone who meditated, recollected his past lives, found a way to end the cycle of birth and death and then taught the way to others doesn’t seem to be very appealing these days.

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Hi Ven. @Brahmali
Thank you for your reply.

The one thing that remains as you move on to another life is the quality of mind that you have developed in this life.

If you don’t mind me asking why do you believe this? Or is it something that you know and others should strive to know? Is an actual knowledge (beyond faith and theory) of rebirth important? How would you go about acquiring this knowledge?

Thanks again

:anjal:

Please refer back to the OP.

Because it’s impact is so great, it’s something everyone should strive to know. Unfortunately I will probably never state publicly what I know or don’t know in this area.

The actual knowledge is far more more powerful than any faith or confidence. Again, see the similes in the OP that describe the Buddha’s realisation of rebirth.

The noble eightfold path. When your samādhi is really strong, turn your mind to your earliest memory and keep going backwards.

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Having a technique to develop recollection of past lives is very interesting. Would you have a work or Sutta, which goes into more specific details and of which you have found is good, that you would suggest to someone who would like to try and develop recollection of past lives?

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I think it is normally quite automatic. After samādhi, if your mind inclines to the recollecting of past lives, it will tend to go there. It all unfolds quite naturally and there is not much you have to do. Whether your mind inclines there or not will in turn depend on your conditioning, such as how important you think it is. The standard passage in the suttas on the recollection of past lives, found e.g. at MN 4, is as follows:

When my concentrated mind was thus purified, bright, unblemished, rid of imperfection, malleable, wieldy, steady, and attained to imperturbability, I directed it to knowledge of the recollection of past lives. I recollected my manifold past lives, that is, one birth, two births, three births, four births, five births, ten births, twenty births, thirty births, forty births, fifty births, a hundred births, a thousand births, a hundred thousand births, many aeons of world-contraction, many aeons of world-expansion, many aeons of world-contraction and expansion: ‘There I was so named, of such a clan, with such an appearance, such was my nutriment, such my experience of pleasure and pain, such my life-term; and passing away from there, I reappeared elsewhere; and there too I was so named, of such a clan, with such an appearance, such was my nutriment, such my experience of pleasure and pain, such my life-term; and passing away from there, I reappeared here.’ Thus with their aspects and particulars I recollected my manifold past lives.

As you can see from this, the recollection is both detailed and structured. What you see is how one life leads to the next, eventually taking you to your present existence.

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Thank you, Bhante.

@Brahmali

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Dear Bhante,
I am so inspired by your above statement and it reminded me of what The Buddha said in the Kalama Sutta.

“Now, Kalamas, one who is a disciple of the noble ones — his mind thus free from hostility, free from ill will, undefiled, & pure — acquires four assurances in the here-&-now”

In my practice too, this is what I endeavor to achieve although with a lot of challenges. And thanks again for your inspiring essay.
With Metta

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The final outcome of metta meditation, is a ‘beautiful’ mind- also known as the Beautiful! :hearts:

with metta,

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Just making some additional comments bhanthe:

Directing the mind to pass lives can be intentional as well, as below. For others it seems to occur spontaneously. However the ability or faculty called the ‘divine eye’ may or may not be present in a person. Having attained jhanas makes it more likely to be able to see in this way.

“I directed it to knowledge of the passing away and reappearance of beings. With the divine eye, which is purified and surpasses the human.” MN4

Seeing the outcomes of kammic events is considered an additional ability, not necessarily present with the ability of seeing past lives.

“I understood how beings pass on according to their actions thus: ‘These worthy beings who were ill conducted in body, speech”

The quality and detailed descriptions of the ‘vision’ are more enhanced the powerful the faculty of the divine eye is. In the Buddha it will be very powerful. He is considered a ‘seer’ of great spiritual potency and we may not be able to match this level of detail:

I recollected my manifold past lives, that is, one birth, two births, three births, four births, five births, ten births, twenty births, thirty births, forty births, fifty births, a hundred births, a thousand births, a hundred thousand births, many aeons of world-contraction, many aeons of world-expansion, many aeons of world-contraction and expansion: ‘There I was so named, of such a clan, with such an appearance, such was my nutriment, such my experience of pleasure and pain, such my life-term; and passing away from there, I reappeared elsewhere; and there too I was so named, of such a clan, with such an appearance, such was my nutriment, such my experience of pleasure and pain, such my life-term; and passing away from there, I reappeared here.

with metta

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I know some of you don’t partake in entertainment, for good reason. Anumodana and keep it up!

But for those that do, Cloud Atlas is a movie that touches on the theme of rebirth and kamma more closely than any other I’ve come across. And it’s great cinema, with or without it, especially for a sci-fi/fantasy buff. A quote from it:

Our lives are not our own. From womb to tomb, we are bound to others. Past and present. And by each crime and every kindness, we birth our future.

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Yes, Cloud Atlas is a fantastic movie. Highly recommend it.

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This would seem to align with …
from “Keeping the Breath in Mind” by Ajaan Lee Dhammadharo (trans Thanissaro B.)
On last page of chapter on Jhana:
“When you have mastered the fourth jhana, it can act as the basis for eight skills:

6. Pubbenivasanussati-ñana: the ability to remember previous lifetimes. (If you attain this skill, you’ll no longer have to wonder as to whether death is followed by annihilation or rebirth.).

On the other hand, considering that passage on the “1st Knowledge” from MN 4, such realization was pivotal to Buddha-awakening, which would put it in a realm beyond just the “magical powers” (abhinnya). For the Buddha, it occurred in the context of release from the ultimate fetter – avijja.

S/t I wonder if that (avijja) isn’t the root of much of this discussion. And why it’s so rarely considered as a topic in itself?

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Having read the book, and then, out of curiosity, seeing the movie…

The book is a masterpiece of writing. The movie is intelligible, recognizable in terms of s/w truncated plot and dramatization. It doesn’t, however, approach the experience of reading the book, with it’s intricately nested structure and skillful prose. The art at work there decidedly overshadowed, for me, the pop-level political and religious themes.

I’ll have to add it to my reading queue!

Thank you – a point of confirmation to when I’d asked both B. Bodhi and Thanissaro B., in Q/A sessions following talks, what’s reborn when it obviously can’t be the same personal “self”. The answer was: clinging. – Assuming you mean “the five clinging (or better, clung-to) aggregates”. (As distinct from the 5 non-clinging aggregates, according to some obscure footnote in Nanamoli’s translation of the Visuddhimagga, namely: sila, samadhi, pannya, deliverance, and the knowledge and vision of deliverance, for which there’s a sutta reference.)

With at least a rudimentary grasp of anatta, and some sense of the 1st and 2nd knowledges of GB’s awakening, I would think it self-evident, so to speak, that what recurs, re-becomes are patterns of perception, patterns of behavior, rather than any specific repeated “me-ness”. Further analogous to the classical notion of the protagonists in Greek tragedy as persona – the actors wore masks through which they spoke (per = through, sona = sounding). Whereby, according to Aristotle’s understanding of tragedy, the on-looker realizes a “catharsis”, a sort of release and relief, grasping that the experience of tragedy is not personal (in the sense of “mine”), but rather impersonally recurring kammic patterns (to mix the cultural idioms).

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I think this is an important observation. I believe it is quite likely that the Buddha’s awakening depended on his recollection of past lives.

Certainly avijjā is at the root of this. Anyone who is awakened would have no doubt about rebirth.

Seeing rebirth is an important part of reducing avijjā, as is specifically stated in MN 4 and elsewhere:

Iti sākāraṃ sauddesaṃ anekavihitaṃ pubbenivāsaṃ anussarāmi. Ayaṃ kho me, brāhmaṇa, rattiyā paṭhame yāme paṭhamā vijjā adhigatā, avijjā vihatā vijjā uppannā …

Thus with their aspects and particulars I recollected my manifold past lives. This was the first true knowledge attained by me in the first watch of the night. Ignorance was banished and true knowledge arose …

Being clear about rebirth is indispensable for the full abandoning of avijjā. If we can’t agree on rebirth, there is hardly any point in discussing the complete ending of avijjā.

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So a while back, I deleted my overly long comment and lately I’m in a “tying up loose threads” sort of mood and I just wanted to state for the record that the above statement is incorrect. I think I had hunted down textual references and the like to back up my assertion and they were a part of the old comment, but, well, anyone can do that if they’re interested. It was just one of those things I felt needed to be said “for the record”.

Also, for the record, I mean no offense and wish DKervick all the best.

So, with metta and no offense meant…and also with apologies for bringing up this old thread… It can go back to it’s slumber again…

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The arising of the 3 knowledges is found in many suttas, with minor variation in wording. DN 2 and MN 53 are two examples. What they share in common is the sequences of their arising:

  1. past lives
  2. kamma of beings and how they pass on according to it
  3. suffering/the taints

…upon which liberation follows.

The path to liberation via the 3 knowledges isn’t the only path to liberation for disciples of the Buddha. There are many suttas where we attain liberation and the 3 knowledges aren’t mentioned. However, IMO a Buddha must gain the 3 knowledges because that’s an essential part of what makes them a fully-enlightened Buddha and deserving of their 9 epithets. Araham (and possibly one or two others) can also apply to arahants.

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To my brothers and sisters in dhamma!

please take this teachings of “rebirth & karma” As A warning given by a noble Father who cares for our welfare.

now we have two choices either TO heed this warning or ignore it.

personally if i was 100 percent convinced there is only this life , i will put a gun to my head right now.