Reflecting on Rebirth: An Understanding That Can Go Beyond Faith and Theory

Just a reminder:

The OP is quite specific and assumes - quite openly - an acceptance of rebirth into one’s view. Please feel free to start your own thread and take this up there. Thank you DKervick.


EDIT: Thank you for deleting your post. :slight_smile: :pray:t6:

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These few lines make it clear that acceptance of rebirth, even though it seems to go against all conventional modes of thought is of paramount importance. When the entrenched views in our minds that have been accumulated over years and decades are shaken, it is natural to be disconcerted.

But, the purity of the Dhamma is like fresh mountain air in a world of polluted tempests that sway us. The main thing is to remember that holding the wrong end of the snake and become strident defenders of the Teaching, rather than develop internal composure, is just harmful. I have done my share of shrill argumentation and I regret all of that now. Maybe it was just a way to gain self-confidence when the raft was not proceeding smoothly, but it is foolish to think that renunciation is going to be a rosy path.

With rebirth, the menacing tone in suttas like Asivisa Sutta become clear. To me, that sutta is the most disturbing one that I have read so far. It paints a picture that is just extraordinarily bleak. But, I can relate to it deeply simply because nothing has gone right in my life so far. All the misfortunes, quarrels, diseases, loneliness, weariness, ache, vanity and the sheer exhaustion of getting through this world. How futile and pointless all the struggle in life looks like when we lose the innocence of childhood, the wantonness of youth and reach the age where discerning thought becomes a possibility.

Monks, there are these two conditions for the arising of right view. Which two? The voice of another and appropriate attention. These are the two conditions for the arising of right view.

I am grateful to Ven. Brahmali for being a voice that cuts through the doubt and confusion in my mind.

May beings find peace in their lives…

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For me the understanding of rebirth was a paradigm shift, but not in an intellectual way. It was more like a sudden change in perspective, like I saw the world in 3D for the first time. It wasn’t anything dramatic: it just happened. But over 20 years later I can still remember the exact time, day, and place where I was.

It’s such a unique thing it’s hard to describe. But it’s like I saw a bigger perspective for the first time. There was a sense of connection, of a larger meaning. It’s been with me for so long now, I guess I take it for granted.

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Hi Bhante @sujato

If at some point you would try and describe that which is hard, in greater detail, it would be interesting and possibly beneficial.

For me the understanding of rebirth was a paradigm shift, but not in an intellectual way.

This is something I can relate to much more readily than attempts to align/understand rebirth with prevailing systems of understanding.

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When I set out on the Buddhist path over 30 years ago the notion of rebirth was totally unfamiliar to me. What I decided straight away was to just leave it to one side until the understanding would become clearer to me and I could either accept or dismiss it. I didn’t know at the time that this is exactly the advise the Buddha gives.

As years went by the idea of rebirth became more and more plausible to me, much more plausible than just a materialistic or rather “annihilationist” view. And this went along with acquiring some understanding of non-self as well.

Listening to different talks by Ajahn @Brahmali on the topic was very decisive in bringing my understanding to a deeper level. Many times I had my hair standing on end when listening to this kind of talks! But still it is a gradual process for me, and a sudden paradigm shift as mentioned by Bhante @sujato is maybe still to come…

What I feel is the deeper my understanding of this matter goes the more it fuels my determination for the practise - and if I look at that, actually, it feels as if it is only fairly on the surface! Even if the notion of rebirth is very important and indispensable for my outlook on life it still feels to me that it is rather shallow and has to deepen a lot!!

As always, very nice thread you’ve started, @anon29387788! :bird: :heartpulse:

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Dear Sujith,

Thanks so much for your heartfelt, honest comment. :pray:t6:

Also thank you for posting the link back to the older thread; I hadn’t realised that there was more to the conversation between Ajahn Brahmali and Peter!

I particularly liked these bits:

and @samseva’s very practical follow up question which led to:

My emphasis. This, for me, is the most important reason for having a more open attitude to the possibility of rebirth. In the most practical way, this is the most important way in which an openness to rebirth will impact a Buddhist’s Practice. It’s almost like an act of mental kamma - this openness and acceptance - which will eventually fruit in this most beautiful of ways.

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After much reflection and replying to many previous threads on rebirth, I thought it is time to share my experiences with rebirth. Though born into a ‘Buddhist’ family in Sri Lanka, I wasn’t necessarily prepared to accept rebirth. I heard many stories over the years about children recounting rebirth stories. I always kept open the possibility and never rejected the idea of rebirth as there seemed some anecdotal ‘evidence’ in the form of rebirth stories, which I couldn’t quite satisfactorily explain away.

Then later when I started meditating I remembering intentionally regressing back to when I was the age of a baby and feeling this big round body with baby fat, which I couldn’t quite control. I found that I could regress to the womb, and beyond… The last memory of what was my last birth was seeing my feet, pointing upwards, in a jungle. It was at an angle so it seemed that I was lying supine. It was entirely a visual experience. There was no body sensations. It later dawned on me that I might have been dying at that point. Regressing further I see ‘me’ as a Bhikkhu living in the forest in what felt was Sri Lanka- though I couldn’t be certain. I see myself as the most senior monk in what is a monastery teaching student monks. Before that I see myself as a layperson going to the forest shaving my hair and approaching a monk, requesting to be ordained. I also see myself as a monk, gazing into the sunset thinking mistakenly (turns out!), that I was an arahanth. Regressing further I can see myself as a man with wife and children possibly in Africa. It’s possible to keep cycling back like this, and it is really without beginning. Each life is different with some similarities. None of them are particularly glamorous, except perhaps the last one, from my perspective, now. My response to this is sadness (for having to keep going through them) and fear + samvega (for seeing the reality of this abyss-like samsaric cycle). It clearly sets out before me the work that is required. It’s not just a bit of happiness I’m trying to find. It’s the end of suffering. It also helps me to understand that what ever pain I have now, I have faced it in the past and whatever pleasure I seek I have experienced it in the past. Nothing is new - just forgotten. I guess even as a monk I had no real insight or true letting go. It’s of course very complex and haven’t processed it completely. I’m putting this out there just so someone might benefit. It’s been helpful to think about this experience, so thanks @anon29387788 for starting this thread.

With metta

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I have had similar experiences to what you have shared mat. I had remembered being in the womb and birth. And also a death in a previous life. These experiences were during a meditation retreat many years ago.

I have also been with people who are/have entered the process of dying and just after death which were also very intense experience.

My feeling now are that everything I perceive myself to be an identify with will end at death. This view is founded on observation of my own body and mind. How they are so intertwined etc and interdependent. Also from seeing how the faculties fall away as death approaches. This however does not negate an openness to rebirth. Rather it means I have some idea of what it is not.

Hope this is not too confused :thinking:

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Looking back, I had inklings of rebirth based on some childhood experiences. Specifically, when I was a kid, mainly ages 4-8, I developed a unusual preoccupation with World War 1. This happened by seeing images in books in a library or classroom from the war. I immediately was fixated on it. Although a generally sensitive child, I had no problem seeing, and wanting to see images of trench warfare, explosions, gas attacks, no man’s land, etc. I had a strong fear of sudden popping sounds. All I can describe it as is a sense of familiarity or connection. Eventually that faded but I always chalked it up as a strange experience I couldn’t quite make heads or tails of.

As I began meditating, this re-emerged as a subject in the form of images and experiences which further outlined this memory with me as some kind of low level officer in World War 1. I recall being fanatically in favor of the war, finding it exciting and thrilling, even going so far as forcing people to fight who objected, even when the situation was clearly futile, but then eventually became remorseful of what I saw and did. On the upside, I did also rescue some people and save some lives and had a strong self-sacrificing tendency. I died years later, alone in a small bed.

I think when I came to understand rebirth as a truth, it was following a process, but the realization of that process was encapsulated in a single moment when I began to feel what is described as samvega. But when I say samvega, I do mean in the sense of terror-- being in a situation-- trapped-- that I wanted to get out of. The idea of doing “this” forever was frightening but also clarifying and transformative.

I wouldn’t say that I ever decided to believe in rebirth. I would say that experiences with meditation, and correlating of my life experiences showed me that it was true.

Thanks all for this interesting and meaningful thread. I enjoy the thought that we may have all crossed paths in the world before meeting again on SC :slight_smile:

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Dear @Mat,

Thank you for the extraordinary generosity, courage and vulnerability you have shown in sharing! :pray:t6: :pray:t6: :pray:t6:

With much metta :hibiscus: :heartpulse: :hibiscus:


No, not at all, it’s awesome (and not in the usual sense in which the word “awesome” is used these days). Thanks Peter!!! :pray:t6: :heartpulse: :pray:t6: :heartpulse: :pray:t6:


@dharmacorps…wow!..just WOW!!! Thanks so much for sharing this!!! :heartpulse: :pray:t6: :pray:t6: :hibiscus: :pray:t6: :pray:t6: :heartpulse:

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Beautifully put Yasoja :hibiscus:

I’m reminded of the Danda Sutta SN 15.9 and the similie of the stick. We can try and incline ourselves towards wholesomeness and try and weight the good kamma side of the stick, but when it’s thrown in the air, it can land on either end, or in the middle…


Yes, it doesn’t make sense to talk about, or make a big deal of, kamma without rebirth.

Thanks so much for sharing your perspective!! :pray:t6:


Much mudita :heartpulse: for being able to listen in person! This shows why it’s so important to hear such teachers in person. My favourite teachers are both long term monastic Practitioners and also scholars of Pali and the EBTs. :slight_smile:

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Thank you Kay, for starting this post. It is a refreshing approach to the topic and one I am glad to see happening :slightly_smiling_face:

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I’ve been reflecting on this lately and just wanted to pop back and say thanks!! What a brilliantly useful way of imagining you’ve shared. :hibiscus: :anjal: :hibiscus:

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My experience is similar. I didn’t just decide one day, “OK, now I believe in rebirth.” I didn’t weigh the merits of one view vs. another view. I didn’t debate with others about it. It just naturally developed on its own with practice and study. I can’t even point out exactly when I became firm about it except to say that it was some time after taking refuge and committing myself to understanding the Buddha’s teachings.

Quite likely, and more intimately at that. :wink:

At Savatthi. There the Blessed One said: "From an inconstruable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. A being who has not been your mother at one time in the past is not easy to find… A being who has not been your father… your brother… your sister… your son… your daughter at one time in the past is not easy to find.

“Why is that? From an inconstruable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. Long have you thus experienced stress, experienced pain, experienced loss, swelling the cemeteries — enough to become disenchanted with all fabricated things, enough to become dispassionate, enough to be released.”
SN 15.14-19

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Which just points to another consequence of being open to rebirth. :slight_smile: It’s a useful reflection for developing karuna and metta. :slight_smile:

Thanks so much for this Mkoll! :hibiscus: :heartpulse: :hibiscus:


I am starting to see a clearer distinction between experiencing Rebirth as a Truth and using an open acceptance of Rebirth as a strategy or skillful means which can have an active and energising impact on our lives and Practice. I’m deeply grateful to you all for sharing your feelings, stories, journeys and personal experiences. :pray:t6: I hope you keep them coming. :hibiscus:

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I appreciate how much courage it takes to share something that’s deeply personal - particularly on a public forum.

So I just want to say an extra big thanks for those of you that have shared your personal, direct experiences of Rebirth. For those of us yet to have such experiences, but open to them and open to an acceptance of what you have shared as your lived truth, it is of great benefit. Personally, each time I hear such stories, I find myself deeply touched; they resonate so strongly with something I feel I know, but cannot, just at this minute :slight_smile: recall. Thank you. :pray:t6:

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Wow. Amazing thread. It gives me a combination of inspiration, awe, and shivers…

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A wonderful thread.
I’m always interested in hearing stories of others who had inklings of past lives as a kid. I remember having this really strong feeling when I was young that the time I was in the womb was an intermediary time. That I’d experienced so much before. Weariness mixed with familiarity.

As I grew up I got caught up in this life and it faded at around the age of 7. I often wonder if I’d had different conditions if it would have faded. Yet there was always the search, where others seemed content.

About 5 years after I started mediating I had my first distinct moment of realising rebirth had to be true. Before that I’d just put it to one side because the Dhamma had been beneficial. Then later after listening to a hair raising online sutta class with Ajahn Brahm on DO (DN15) the conditions where right to investigate further via meditation. This experience reminded me of that ‘knowing’ I had as a kid. The sense of urgency really increased and the vastness of my own predicament became clearer.

I’m somewhat amused and perplexed as to how I was born in Amsterdam to an America of Russian decent and an Englishwoman of German decent and then (re)discovered the Dhamma in Australia. But it feels like home.

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I hear you! :smiley: Thank you so much for sharing your perspective.

I love this!

Nice :slight_smile: Very nice :anjal:

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Discussing and sharing our experiences of rebirth has another couple of benefits, which are related to each other. These are found in the EBTs, and, just as importantly, in the hearts of those who have been writing (and hopefully reading) this thread. :slight_smile:

  1. It gives us a chance to have discussions about the Dhamma, it gives us a chance to dwell on the Dhamma because Rebirth is such a crucial, central aspect of the Dhamma.

  2. This in turn fulfills the requirement to deliberately choose to condition ourselves with Right View; in preparation for it being the cause of becoming the Right View of the Stream Winner.

Thus we are creating a View which generally dwells somewhere in the background of our minds, not often thought about or dwelt on, just there, quietly informing how we perceive and think. We continue, for most our time as Buddhist Practitioners, to cultivate metta and mindfulness, present moment awareness. Most of the time we don’t go around worrying about past lives or future lives or 3 life dependent origination or whatever. Most of the time we cultivate kindness and presence and awareness.

But every now and then, it’s good and useful to come together and share like this and also to listen and read the Dhamma. Especially when the contemporary, popular conditioning of the day doesn’t encourage or support us in such endeavours.

For me it’s not about reifing blind belief or hopeful imagination or cosy over-optimism. The Buddha’s teachings on rebirth are too coarse, too frightening, to hair raising for that. So it’s not about a blind faith.

Rather it’s - at least partly - about recognising the various mental gymanastics open to us. One of them, as I’ve mentioned, is conditioning Right View so that when we do die or have a profoundly deep meditation, we have the natural inclination to turn to look at and investigate Rebirth and find out for ourselves; and to make a habit even of this, perhaps even over lifetimes, so that we can have the best possible chance of Enlightenment. Or alternatively, the teaching on Rebirth helps us - as some of you have already pointed to - a deeper understanding of what it means to let go; and thus it prepares you for this in those incredibly important life moments - death and deep meditation.

The other, and certainly not the only other, mental activity where this sort of discussion comes in handy is in the development of a type of faith or confidence which we recognise as a strategy, a mental construct, an emotional tool. Which we can deliberately apply - as if it were an ointment - in our toolkit of skillful means. One which has the capacity to energise and fuel our practice in an extraordinary way. I am sure some of you are feeling this or have felt this while reading some of what has been written in this topic; you know what I mean. :slight_smile:


@samseva’s new thread made me think about the story of Dhamma Ruwan and how I first came to find out about it. Dhamma Ruwan, now an adult, is one of the speakers in the Global Conference video I posted on Samseva’s new topic. It’s also interesting to hear what Ajahn Brahm says about his chanting at around the 1 hour mark.

Anyway, this is how I first heard about him:

I happened to be strolling along one evening when I heard this melodious chanting. I got close enough to hear, though indistinctly. I’d never heard the melody before. I closed my eyes and stood still. I suddenly “saw” a temple in Sri Lanka, the ground (which is common in Sri Lankan temples) generously covered in beach sand and the buildings whitewashed. It seemed to be a full moon night - with the moonlight reflecting off the sand and the white buildings. It felt intensely peaceful and pure. And I knew - like I know with certainty that 1 plus 1 is 2 - that what I was seeing was something from a distant past. It was gone in a few moments, but it was so powerful that I feel its echoes now as I write this.

Later I found out that the chanting I was hearing had been done by a little boy of 3 years, who spontaneously chanted in a style that had long, long since dropped out of fashion.

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