the point i was making was the guide addresses a broader community than adhd and autism, and when addressing people from this broader community it is probably wiser to not presume that they accept their diagnosis as part of their identity i.e. to not refer to them as schizophrenic etc. thank you for the adhd perspective.
3 Likes
Basically I was trying to go further than what the guide is saying: which is to not assume either way and just ask how they want their diagnosis to be referred to. Because this will be different from person to person and diagnosis to diagnosis.
This goes for any marginalised group where this could be in doubt, not just mental health: be it race, ethnicity, gender identity and pronouns, sexual orientation. Always ask how people prefer to be called.
3 Likes
Thereās a lot of research into the efficacy of loving kindness mindfulness.
One of the early researchers into loving kindness towards others was Barbara Fredrickson. One of the more recent researchers into loving kindness towards oneself (rebranded in the literature as self compassion) is Kristin Neff.
You can review this literature for yourself but my observation is that itās pretty supportive of loving kindness, both towards oneself, and towards others, as protective for mental health.
Iām a neuropsychologist, and I worked in severe (secure facility) mental health settings. As part of the morning routine I started doing loving kindness (āMay I be free from ā¦ May I be well and happy in every way ā) as a group exercise. I remember that with a room of about 30-40 individuals, most with diagnoses of schizophrenia (and some frankly psychotic), at the end of doing this, you could have heard a pin drop.
My observations are:
-
A diagnosis does not matter if you are able to meet psychosis / mood concerns with a sense of kindness, gentleness and compassion.
-
Self compassion (loving kindness towards oneself) isnāt part of loving kindness as taught by the Buddha. However, it is direct training in mindfulness of mind (the third satipatthana). Practicing the traditional formulation of loving kindness towards oneself (āMay I be ā¦ ā) trains one in becoming aware of mind states and then letting them go. I think this is why itās so effective - it develops mental resilience.
-
Loving kindness towards others is protective of mental health in a different way. The traditional way of developing loving kindness towards friendly, neutral, and inimical persons (May he/she be free from ā¦ May he/she be well and happy in every way ā) generates a sense of connection and relationship with others. This of extremely protective against paranoia and aversion towards others.
I always recommend loving kindness mindfulness in practice.
I generally advise practitioners with mental health concerns to avoid trying to develop deep concentration / jhana, and to avoid focusing on anatta. The possibility for dissociation, and nihilistic depression are there for each of these. The Buddhaās path isnāt limited by sticking to loving kindness - itās just a different way up the mountain.
Instead I recommend (in addition to loving kindness) that practitioners with mental health concerns to focus on developing the positive aspects of the Buddhaās path: physical calm, mental tranquility, joy, content satisfaction. And of course a very very firm base in the five precepts.
Hope this helps.
8 Likes
This is similar to the practice of right thought (sammÄsaį¹ kappa ę£åæ):
Thought of detachment (nekkhammasaį¹ kappa), thought of non-malice (abyÄpÄdasaį¹ kappa), thought of non-harming (avihiį¹sÄsaį¹ kappa).
1 Like
5 posts were split to a new topic: Sutta where a monk seems depressed and wants to return to lay life and the Buddha gladdens him by saying the teacher is here, rejoice!
Seek nothing, just sit, mindfully breathe out and mindfully breathe in.
The point about sleep deprivation was interesting ā how it is a risk factor for psychosis.
Some of these retreats, if youāre sharing a room with three other people, getting up super early, sitting through pain for hours every day, and you canāt talk to anyone about it because itās a silent retreat, it makes sense that it can be bad for someoneās mental health.
I personally wouldnāt go to a retreat where Iām forced to sit for long hours through pain. It just doesnāt seem beneficial to me, tough Iām sure some people get a lot out of it 
5 Likes
classic
Hinting at the Goenka way?
Yes, but Iāve also heard stories from hyper-disciplined zen retreats where youāre not allowed to change posture for hours, youāre not supposed to even swallow, much less cough or scratch or adjust your legs.
For me, it would be an act of self harm to go on such a retreat. Iāve never had any good experiences when Iāve tried to force myself to sit. Though Iām sure other people are able to approach it skilfully.
IMO itās best to have a private room/space to meditate, with most of the day free. If you want to meditate for hours you can, and the gong wonāt pull you out just when itās about to get good 
but you can also sleep, do walking meditation, take a walk if you need to.
9 Likes
Yes, those are worse.
Used to be that in some traditional eastern monasteries, when the student is nodding or slouching, the teacher would even hit his shoulder from the back with a é¦ęæļ¼ which is a flat wooden stick. I was told it doesnāt hurt, but itās a sure way to shock the person (and maybe the people around too) out of sleepiness/laziness.
Thereās also one tradition in Myanmar where youāre encouraged to sit for long periods, like 8 hours. If you need help preventing yourself from moving, they offer to tie you up!
I wonder if these people stop to think: Did the Buddha teach us to reduce stress or increase it?
5 Likes
Iād agree with that, and add that too much solitude can be a problem, especially over long periods.
4 Likes
I think this wooden stick is not really good for a practioner being diagnosed with a mental illness.
Sitting too long, like 8 hours, may be not particularly good, useful for body-mind in seated meditation. Why does one need so long hours for sitting meditation?
Fully agree. On the point on anatta, the issue is that most people misunderstand it and some even teach according to their misunderstanding.
My teacher, Sayadaw U Tejaniya, circumvents the confusion by reminding his students, esp those with mental issues, that āthoughts are just thoughts, feelings are just feelingsā.
2 Likes
I recall reading one sutta in which the Buddha said something like, if one is not cultivated enough, doing that would cause one to āsinkā.
2 Likes
Although you might be correct, it is the price to pay to reach the ultimate truth. Everything in this world has a price and pain, and the thing that is ultimate, naturally takes the most pain to reach. It was not designed to be easy to reach.
I am from Iran and have read some of our past literature which was influeced by both Buddhism and Platonism as well as Iranās ancient heritage. In it, I have found many many passages and poem that point out to the same idea of pain in the path of reaching the ātrue loveā (In Iranian literature terms, the idea of Nirvana equals love more or less, particularly a female one). But that does not necesarily conclude that one has to be a ascetic to reach that ultimate loveā¦ But I digress and will stop here. 
That being said, it should be stated that I was diagnosed in the past with depression and anxiety, and I have kind of felt that dissociation one or two times during my sitting meditation practice. I do have such concerns as you said and need to be cautious even though I believe that feeling is true and not a mental disorder. Because the light has not decided to shine on me yet.
1 Like
Some time has passed since I read this thread and have considered posting here. Having personal experience with Bipolar w/ psychotic features, PTSD, and OCD, I wanted to offer useful notes to those who could be helpful as kalyanamittas. This doesnāt apply to severe mental disturbance which needs professional assistance.
Mainly, like any generalization, generalizations of individuals with diagnosed mental illness are guides only to a certain extent. Itās good and skillful to learn and have resources but better to observe and interact and adjust based on the actual relationship and not ācarryā the DSM around in your encounters.
Tibetan Buddhists have a thing about the guru. Trust the guru. Visualize the guru. Connect with the guru. This process is a soft and gentle introduction to a sound relationship that could work well for someone with mental illness. Yes, it has been abused but the abuse can be avoided by following basic rules. Someone with mental illness should have basic rules explained to them in a soft and gentle manner. For example: āyour guru will never ask you to sit alone with them in a secluded placeā or ānoble silence isā¦ but if you have to address something, please let so and so knowā. Theravada monastic teachers during retreat kind of jump into the mental world of the student unannounced and the student may not be able to discern the reality level there. This is a slippery slope.
I believe mental illness is heavy mental defilement and it can be accompanied by mind sensitivity and acute self and other awareness (which can be quite tragic and I wonder if this is the reason the Buddha warned against developing psychic powers). It could be a raging flood at times, at other times it could be just a basic inability to discern the reality level or discerning a reality level that is repeatedly denied. For a raging flood-like delusion perhaps only a Buddha or Arahant can help but most well-practiced kalyanamittas can help the latter with compassion. Being in the presence of true compassion helps readjust the view. It can really be that simple.
Understand that it can take a lot of courage for someone with diagnosed mental illness to even approach a kalyanamitta. It can feel like walking into an active line of fire. Practice compassion, teach compassion, be compassion. Donāt hang a sign with the word compassion on your website if this is not your practice. Also, you may not be able to help for whatever reason but rather than dismissing the person, contact someone who can help. Find someone who can be a kalyanamitta for them, even online. Find someone now and be ready.
Lastly it 's good to keep in mind that medications donāt work for everyone but insight meditation can reach many that meds cannot. 
4 Likes
ā¦ but if you are on medication, speak to your healthcare professional before making changes and before undertaking extended periods of meditation.
3 Likes