unchanging is better yes, it is the Third Noble Truth;
X = unchanging + possible
It is not my view but it is what i am saying yes:
vinnana anidassanam is a permanent and unchanging type of consciousness, that does not arise and does not fade
Do you think this is related to sati ( mindfulness ), or perhaps a product of sati?
Cessation of suffering is the result/product of fully developed Sati, in that sense there is a connection.
Is it possible to experience vinnanam anidassanam?
It is a singleness and there is no self there. However it is possible for a being to experience the temporary cessation of suffering. To that extent a being experiences Nibbana, after the experience he has the knowledge of the Noble Truths. Nibbana element itself is uninhabited by beings.
I have found that with strong mindfulness there is a sense of stillness “beneath” the movement of the mind and senses. Though I’m not sure whether this is anything to do with vinnanam anidassanam.
Is experiencing vinnanam anidassanam the same as experiencing the temporary cessation of suffering?
That entire quote (3 sections) under DN11 refers to the unconditioned. So it cannot be that of Consciousness (Aggregate) which is conditioned.
With the cessation of [the activity of] consciousness
each is here brought to an end.
If you notice the words: with the cessation, meaning consciousness is released…hence a further quote on SN22.53 to shows what happens…if you notice in that text the words:
he (the monk) is totally unbound right within.
Just in case we grasp at the word cessation thinking it totally disappears.
Being unbound is that of the state of the unconditioned…Nibbana.
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If I have understood you correctly, you are saying that the consciousness of an arahat continues after the breakup of the five aggregates, and that this consciousness is vinnanam anidassanam?
And it seems that @inb4dead is saying something different, though I admit I don’t understand exactly what the difference is yet.
It is same as cessation of suffering in general, suffering changes, not-suffering does not change.
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The absence of Aggregates is the meaning of Anidassanam in the “Vinnana Anidassanam”.
“Vinnana Anidassanam =/= Vinnana”, Anidassanam is the distinctive/discerning characteristic between these two conpcepts.
So it is not an Aggregate, it is the Unconditioned Element that is unobstructed by The Arising of Aggregates.
Cessation of Suffering [Conditioned phenomena] is brought about by Right View… Right Resolve… etc (8FNP). When this cessation occurs, conditioned phenomena[Aggregates] do not arise. However the element of reality in which these Impermanent Realities were gaining footing is Deathless and it is unafflicted and at that time is unobstructed.
Sutta reference for this AN10.58;
Ud 8.3 PTS: Ud 80
Nibbāna Sutta: Unbinding (3)
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
The Blessed One said, "Monks, if those who have gone forth in other sects ask you, ‘In what are all phenomena rooted? What is their coming into play? What is their origination? What is their meeting place? What is their presiding state? What is their governing principle? What is their surpassing state? What is their heartwood? Where do they gain a footing? What is their final end?’: On being asked this by those who have gone forth in other sects, this is how you should answer them:"'All phenomena are rooted in desire.[1]
"'All phenomena come into play through attention.
"'All phenomena have contact as their origination.
"'All phenomena have feeling as their meeting place.
"'All phenomena have concentration as their presiding state.
"'All phenomena have mindfulness as their governing principle.
"'All phenomena have discernment as their surpassing state.
"'All phenomena have release as their heartwood.
"'All phenomena gain their footing in the deathless.
"‘All phenomena have Unbinding as their final end.’
Here is another one and note the bolded part;
Ud 8.1 PTS: Ud 80
Nibbāna Sutta: Unbinding (1)I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying near Sāvatthī at Jeta’s Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika’s monastery. And on that occasion the Blessed One was instructing, urging, rousing, & encouraging the monks with Dhamma-talk concerned with unbinding. The monks — receptive, attentive, focusing their entire awareness, lending ear — listened to the Dhamma.
Then, on realizing the significance of that, the Blessed One on that occasion exclaimed:
There is that dimension, monks, where there is neither earth, nor water, nor fire, nor wind; neither dimension of the infinitude of space, nor dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, nor dimension of nothingness, nor dimension of neither perception nor non-perception; neither this world, nor the next world, nor sun, nor moon. And there, I say, there is neither coming, nor going, nor staying; neither passing away nor arising: unestablished,[1] unevolving, without support [mental object].[2] This, just this, is the end of stress.
Nibbāna Sutta: Unbinding (3)
I have heard that on one occasion the Blessed One was staying near Sāvatthī at Jeta’s Grove, Anāthapiṇḍika’s monastery. And on that occasion the Blessed One was instructing, urging, rousing, & encouraging the monks with Dhamma-talk concerned with unbinding. The monks — receptive, attentive, focusing their entire awareness, lending ear — listened to the Dhamma.
Then, on realizing the significance of that, the Blessed One on that occasion exclaimed:
There is, monks, an unborn[1] — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated. If there were not that unborn — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated, there would not be the case that escape from the born — become — made — fabricated would be discerned. But precisely because there is an unborn — unbecome — unmade — unfabricated, escape from the born — become — made — fabricated is discerned
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Is there any difference between vinnanam anidassanam and unconsciousness?
If so, what is the difference?
Sure. It is also supported by text.
In some text, it notes it as awareness. The Tathagata dwells with unrestricted awareness…so this is Nibbana without residue.
Therefore Nibbana with residue is that of an Arahat with restricted awareness.
Think of it this way, if there is Nibbana, and it can be experienced in the here and now, that which experiences Nibbana cannot be nothing, furthermore it must also be an unconditioned state which is permanent…it therefore cannot be destroyed…terms for this are unborn, unestablished and many others.
Mind is naturally aware.
What is the vinnanam anidsassanam aware of?
The Not-Self element…so that a “change of linkage” to enable one to uncling.
Per Ud8.3…
fabricated is discerned.
So according to this understanding, when an arahat dies, the five aggregates dissolve, and what’s left is only the eternal and unchanging awareness of not-self?
Edit: i.e. just that single, lasting perception of not-self, and nothing more or less than this?
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Arahat knows, the awareness here is never born nor dies…
Eternal isn’t correct. The middle-way goes straight through the middle between extremes…between “fabricated-unborn”.
Not-self only depends on the difference between delusion (Samsara) and non-delusion (Nibbana) and there is no need to use this beyond.
Sorry, but I don’t understand your answer. Would you mind restating it more plainly?
Unconsciousness as in losing consciousness is a state that is brought about, it is a caused state, not uncaused, it is therefore impermanent.
I am not sure if any of your other questions were directed to me.