haha, excellent! yes I had thought mysef of the idea that ‘it’s nothing’ as the guy says on the video; and was going to joke to the person who first suggested that I invest in it (an ex buddhist monk) that indeed it’s an investment is in agreement with Ajahn Chah’s phrase: ‘there is nothing’. 
I don’t know how Bitcoin supporters can be so confident - it’s down 30% this week and I’ve seen tweets by them in which they are willing to take the moral responsibility to continue to urge people to hold on to it or buy more of it with their lives savings.
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I thought I’d share this beautiful story here
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Since bitcoin is predominantly an informal ponzi scheme, I hope some of these “investors” are giving back to the other investors they have effectively fleeced in order to get rich.
I don’t understad your post. This person gave away 86 millions. Are you saying that instead of finding this act inspiring, we should think of them as someone who had been involved in some shameful scheme, so that it’s only ‘normal’ that they give something back?
Having lived many years in France (where becoming rich is almost a crime, and where jealousy and envy are dressed up as egalité) I am unfortunately quite familiar with this type of discourse. I much prefer Ajahn Brahm’s teaching of finding beauty instead of finding fault.
I also don’t see how Bitcoin is a Ponzi scheme.
Investors who got rich on Bitcoin have the merit of having seen early on its potential, or (if you think it’s a bubble) have been willing to buy into a bubble before it bursts (cf George Soros: When I see a bubble forming, I rush in to buy, adding fuel to the fire, That is not irrational).
Some network marketing programs, selling products that invest in Bitcoin, may indeed be Ponzi schemes. But that is not the same as buying Bitcon directly.
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What is bitcoin ultimately ?!
Bitcoin = Money = Rapacity
Equivalent to not right livelihood .
well the person who gave away 86m doesn’t appear rapacious to me. I am not buying Bitcoin myself; but as I said above I don’t see anything wrong with it if you’re willing to take the risks. The person who introduced Bitcoin to me, who is now earning his living as a trader, has been a buddhist monk for many years and still seems to be quite involved in Buddhism.
Entering a financial bubble for an “asset” whose market value is based almost entirely on the power of irrational exhuberance among the gullible and greedy is a form of exoloitation. Of course, some speculative gambles pay off for the speculator, and exploitation might be quite “rational” from the narrow instrumental and narcissistic perspective of homo economicus. But Bitcoin has minimal utility and is adding very little actual economic value to the world, and so its exloding price is due primarily to a self-reinforcing cycle of greed-fueled demand for returns, as earlier “investors” realize gains derived entirely from the entry of new rounds of suckers into the bitcoin casino. Thus I am by no means inspired by some bitcoin millionaire giving away money he won in the bitcoin casino than I would be by some gangster giving away some of the money he had made by running a numbers racket.
By the way, notice that the money given away was in the form of dollars, not bitcoins. Recall that the bitcoin inventors dreamed of establishing bitcoin as a valuable alternative currency. So why doesn’t this philanthropist just donate his bitcoins instead of dollars. I suspect it’s because he knows these bitcoins will ultimately be close to worthless.
Forgive me for finding this scandalous. I hope I am never so fortunate as to encounter such “monks”.
I guess the fellow believes that because bitcoin is mostly only a sham, and not an actual currency, then he is not handling money! Or maybe he has rationalized his trafficking in crypto-currency by telling himsef that because it is all digital, he is not “handling” it.
The question is , is it Right livelihood
? The monkhood of an individual does not equating anything at all . The Way or Path must according to dhamma which means righteousness imo .
Perhaps one can be philanthropic by living according to dhamma and vinaya , the amount of money should not become the criteria . Instead , the mind and the heart is much more valuable .
I think I didn’t write that clearly. The person I mentioned used to be a monk, now he has disrobed and he is a trading Bitcoin to support himself and his family.
However he was still very much involved with his ex-monastery when I visited it, so I guess the Abbott, who is certainly a very accomplished teacher, doesn’t find anything wrong with that livelyhood; otherwise I supposed he would have told him.
I think I didn’t write that clearly. The person I mentioned used to be a monk, now he has disrobed and he is a trading Bitcoin to support himself and his family.
However he was still very much involved with his ex-monastery when I visited it, so I guess the Abbott, who is certainly a very accomplished teacher, doesn’t find anything wrong with that livelyhood; otherwise I supposed he would have told him.
As I said above I probably didn’t express myself clearly, please forgive me. The person I mentioned is an ex-monk. However when I visited his monastery I saw that he was still very involved with it and meeting the Abbot (someone who is definitely very accomplished) nearly every day basically. So I am sure if trading Bitcoin had been wrong livelyhood the Abbott would have told him.
Yes, but it is entirely possible the abbot doesn’t have the slightest idea what bitcoin is.
Funny that you compare succesful people to gangsters. I prefer Taleb’s view that they are people who are willing and able to take risks and are rewarded for them.
Coincidentally I was watching a program on the gangster Pablo Escobar and to me what was most evil was his will to control everything. He seemed to be the ultimate control freak, to use Ajahn Brahm’s sentence. A trait I find in the bureaucrats and technocrats who without taking any risks want to control everything in society.
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Gamblers also take risks when they bet in a casino. The mere willingness to take risks is not the source of economic virtue. Rather it is the willingness to take risks for the production of something of real value. There is nothing virtuous in the roulette table, or in riding what one knows oneself to be only bubble. In the latter case one can only profit by exploiting the losses of other people.
I am sure he does; for example, when I made a donation he knew exactly what percentage Paypal would take if I were to make a payment through them etc. You might think that an accomplished teacher spends all his time in jhana (at least that’s what I used to think before meeting him), but after meeting him I realised that he is also very much aware about many practical and ‘down to earth’ things.
Understanding PayPal fees does not entail understanding the Bitcoin market of other financial schemes and scams.
In any case, I am weary from all of this talking about money and profit. The livelihood of the noble ones is a robe and a bowl.
Yes, I see that you seem to have a lot of disdain for money. With due respect, you had no obligation to comment on my post (which is on money). Once I have seen the disdain with which you consider a gift of 86M$, since I am familiar with this attitude in many people I’ve met in my professional life, and which I found is motivated by jealousy, envy, and a desire to control society and stifle freedom, I thought it would be interesting to express my point of view.
In twenty year as an academic, I have seen my colleagues criticise and despise on countless occasions rich people. On no occasion, however, have I witnessed an act of real material generosity by these critics.
Finally, like I mentioned in the OP, money can be useful for example if one wants to ordain but has a family to support. In this sense, in order to practice with the aim of becoming a noble one, some people have first to worry about money, however lowly that may seem to you.
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Are you ordained?
I’m not, so I can’t get by on a robe and bowl. That doesn’t mean, I don’t think, that I couldn’t be a “noble one”. Not saying I am, of course. The noble ones are the ariyasangha, lay or ordained with attainments. They may have bowls and robes and may not.
And money and profit is a real world concern for taking care of myself and my loved ones. There is tons of guidance and examples in the Suttas for lay people to live and act ethically in business and worldly affairs. I don’t think that’s for no reason. This thread, which I believe has been quite productive, is geared towards lay people working together to help provide for their well being and their families well being in keeping with the dhamma. I think Stef did a good thing by creating this post! 
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If I am not mistaken , the “risk” of such kind (bitcoin now is similar to gambling) is not a right way of livelihood according to sutta (can’t remember now which) .