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Sahadhammike Translation

I was going threw some text and I noticed this is probably a difficult word to translate.

Since somewhere else I think it’s untranslated as sahadhammikaṃ

I look somewhere explaining the word Sabhā in the Vedas it’s sometimes as Assembly. In Pali also. But could it be that the Saha of sahadhammike is coming from Sabhā. Because it’s translated as co-religionists. But when I checked in Pali text the word. I immediately felt it should be Dhamma Assembly or something else.

It’s here.

Since I searched for similar word in the Vinaya. It seems there untranslated. But it’s there as bhikkhūhi sahadhammikaṃ

Then I thought it’s Bhikkhus Dhamma Assembly

I started to wonder about this word because the first translation was far from a word like Dhamma and in that Vinaya it seems to translated as just monk because the word is difficult to translate maybe

Hi,

Pali saha corresponds straightforwardly to Sanskrit sahá and means ‘with’.
Thus, sahadhammika- could mean something like ‘in agreement with the dhamma-’. One would obviously need to take into account the context, though.
Does that answer your question?

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So let me try to understand the word then. So the first sutta should be then asking those that agree with my dharma Then? Actually

Hi,

I haven’t looked at the Pali for the suttas you link.
My suggestion was simply that, if one doesn’t agree with the translation ‘co-religionist’, one might consider a meaning ‘one who lives in agreement with/is in accord with/is consonant with the dhamma’.

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Ok. But then there is the opposite paradhammikā which is used some place for monks that don’t agree with Buddha. But I saw that para can come from another In pali there is parabita Which is benefit for another. In Sanskrit it’s parabita also. So the opposite is in disagreement.

Paradhammikānampi na santaseyya-Nor be disturbed by those with differing Dharma.

Then what is word same in Pali? Because that’s what is mean those that follow same dhamma more understandable why it would co-religionists. So maybe not with but same? Close meaning

There follow quotes of the Pali text and Horner’s translation of Sahadhammikasikkhāpada, the Vinaya text you refer to above, @Upasaka_Dhammasara . I’ve interleaved the relevant portions of the two texts. Horner is interpreting the more general term, sahadhammika, in terms of the more specific term, sikkhāpada .


at Kosambī in Ghosita’s monastery.
kosambiyaṃ viharati ghositārāme.

Now at that time the venerable Channa indulged in bad habits.
Tena kho pana samayena āyasmā channo anācāraṃ ācarati.

Bhikkhū evamāhaṃsu— “māvuso channa, evarūpaṃ akāsi. Netaṃ kappatī”ti.
Monks spoke thus: “Reverend Channa, do not do that, it is not allowable.”

He spoke thus:
So evaṃ vadeti—

“Your reverences, I will not train myself in this rule of training until I have inquired about it of another monk, experienced, expert in discipline.”
“na tāvāhaṃ, āvuso, etasmiṃ sikkhāpade [locative of sikkhāpada] sikkhissāmi yāva na aññaṃ bhikkhuṃ byattaṃ vinayadharaṃ paripucchāmī”ti.

From the PTS Pali English Dictionary entry for sikkhāpada: set of precepts, “preceptorial,” code of training; instruction, precept, rule
in general: DN.i.63, DN.i.146, DN.i.250; MN.i.33; AN.i.63, AN.i.235 sq. AN.ii.14, AN.ii.250 sq.; AN.iii.113, AN.iii.262; AN.iv.152, AN.iv.290 sq.; SN.ii.224 SN.v.187; Vin.i.102; Vin.ii.95, Vin.ii.258; Vin.iii.177; Vin.iv.141 (sahadhammika), Vin.iv.143 (khudd’ ânukhuddakāni); Iti.96, Iti.118 Vb-a.69 (bhesajja˚); Dhp-a.iii.16.
in special: the 5 (or 10) rules of morality, or the precepts to be adopted in particular by one who is entering the Buddhist community either as a layman or an initiate. There seem to have been only 5 rules at first, which are the same as the first 5 sīlas (see sīla 2 b): SN.ii.167; Vb.285 (explained in detail at Vb-a.381 sq.); Dhp-a.i.32 and passim To these were added another 5, so as to make the whole list (the dasasikkhāpadaṃ or ˚padāni) one of 10 (which are not the 10 sīlas!). These are (6) vikāla-bhojanā (-veramaṇī) not eating at the wrong hour; (7) nacca-gītavādita-visūka-dassanā˚; to avoid worldly amusements (8) mālā-gandha-vilepana-dhāraṇa-maṇḍana-vibhūsanaṭṭhānā˚; to use neither unguents nor ornaments; (9 uccā-sayana-mahā-sayanā˚; not to sleep on a high, big bed; (10) jātarūpa rajata-paṭiggahaṇā˚; not to accept any gold or silver: Vin.i.83 = Kp ii.; AN.i.211, and frequently- dasa-sikkhāpadikā (f.) conforming to the 10 obligations (of a nun) Vin.iv.343 (= sāmaṇerī). There is nowhere any mention of the 8 sikkhāpadas as such, but they are called aṭṭhaṅgika uposatha (see sīla 2b) e.g. Mhvs.37, Mhvs.202 …

Those who were modest monks … spread it about, saying:
Ye te bhikkhū appicchā … pe … te ujjhāyanti khiyyanti vipācenti—

“How can the venerable Channa, being spoken to by monks regarding a rule , speak thus:
“kathañhi nāma āyasmā channo bhikkhūhi sahadhammikaṃ vuccamāno evaṃ vakkhati— …

From the PTS Pali English Dictionary entry for saha: [saha]-dhammika having the same Dhamma co-religionist MN.i.64; Mnd.485 (opp. para˚); regarding the Dhamma DN.i.94, DN.i.161; MN.i.368; Vin.i.134; Ne.52; DN-a.i.263 (= sahetuka, sakāraṇa); that which is in accordance with the dhamma Dhs.1327; MN.i.482 ˚ṃ adv. in accordance with the dhamma Vin.i.60, Vin.i.69 Vin.iii.178; Vin.iv.141.


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I have noticed somethings like that. It seems used also for that purpose. As Dhammic vows the sangha agrees or the opposite also. As against Dhammic vows. Since maybe the word sangha was not used so much as other words in beginning. There where used. Sangha speaks for itself. Nowadays. But one assume they are people that live one in mind etc.

Sometimes I there is some Pali words that probably had Sinhalese origin. Thanks everyone.