Sañña and paññā as mediated and unmediated knowing

The following is from a doctoral thesis by Lauren Michele Bausch.

This distinction (bolded text above) between mediated and unmediated knowing and its importance in liberation appears to me to be what Ud 1.10 and Snp 4.11 are driving at (see below) though I think it is more obvious in Ud 1.10 below when things are said to be “seen”(mediated), and “merely seen”(unmediated).

What I believe has disappeared in Snp 4.11 is mediated form(what the worldling knows as form) and what remains is unmediated form(what the enlightened knows as form) due to the cessation of sañña and the arising of paññā.

Both either explicitly or implicitly mention the cessation of self when sañña ceases.

I am curious to hear what others think.

From the Parayana Vagga( edit: Suttanipata)

Sukhanti diṭṭhamariyehi,
Paccanīkamidaṁ hoti,
Sabbalokena passataṁ.

The noble ones have seen as happiness
the ceasing of identity.
This insight by those who see
contradicts the whole world.

I am limited in my expression in english.

Here, in my opinion, ‘Sakkāya’ is quite akin to the Sanskrit ‘Svarūpa’. So for me the above verse expresses a very strong Anatta doctrine without any remainders.

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I agree. I think that anatta is the outstanding feature of the passages in the context of the suttas.

I am curious if you understand the meanings of sanna and panna as mediated and unmediated knowing?

I ask because it seems to imply that for one to have panna/wisdom one must literally perceive sights and sounds differently. It is not just a case of not being attached. It is a state of altered perception.

I think so,

A post in a different forum

So i use mantra meditation (similar to tm) and i have a question.

After a while of mentally repeating the mantra, the sound of the mantra in my mind becomes quieter and quieter until it melts away and i don’t hear it anymore or feel the need to repeat it or hold on to it

When this happends i feel like a completely seperate self from thought, emotion and physical sensation (body). I can see a thought coming but it does not feel like it’s “me” it feels like i’m completely seperate from my body & mind and i can view everything from an outside perspective

The result is complete silence, i feel like i am only being, it feels like i step into the shoes of the observer and is free from any interference from both mind or body and this is done without any effort at all, i’m just in pure enjoyment of being

Then eventually i might get lost in a thought which pulls me back but then i just kindly return to the mantra and eventually return to “being” again

In my opinion,this does not mean activity of Sanna, vedana etc has ceased. Ok, there is subsiding of some dhammas and arising of some other dhammas such as Sati, Samadhi etc to a certain degree. Hence this sort of experience. But all these dhammas are conditioned.

”dukkhe loko patiṭṭhito” ti.

The world is grounded on suffering.

PS: Ok, there is degree of skillfulness,a certain going beyond extremes but stuck in the middle.

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