Sañña and paññā as mediated and unmediated knowing

[Raftafarian]

The following is from a doctoral thesis by Lauren Michele Bausch.

In conclusion, both Yājñavalkya and the Buddha contrast two different modes of knowing. The saṃjñā/saññā mode of knowing is conditioned by past karma, which is stored first before flowing into the sensory faculties, where it constructs apperception. In contrast, the prajñāna/paññā mode of knowing is a direct awareness, free from attaching to ripened karma. This mode of knowing is an unmediated, unencumbered seeing of things as they really are. In this way, paññā is not a quality to possess (like wisdom), but an activity in this very life that does not come or go, even after death. Uncovering this direct awareness is equivalent to crossing over to svàr, which is to say to the far shore. That the Suttanipāta expresses no anatta doctrine suggests the possibility that the Buddha focused on the concepts of paññā and saññā for this audience, because for them paññā would have been associated with the Kāṇva’s specific understanding of ātman. Other Pāli texts react to a reified abstraction of the ātman concept that seems to have evolved in popular discourse from the metaphysical doctrine expounded in the Kāṇva Śatapatha Brāhmaṇa.

This distinction (bolded text above) between mediated and unmediated knowing and its importance in liberation appears to me to be what Ud 1.10 and Snp 4.11 are driving at (see below) though I think it is more obvious in Ud 1.10 below when things are said to be “seen”(mediated), and “merely seen”(unmediated).

When you have trained in this way,
Yato kho te, bāhiya, diṭṭhe diṭṭhamattaṁ bhavissati, sute sutamattaṁ bhavissati, mute mutamattaṁ bhavissati, viññāte viññātamattaṁ bhavissati,
you won’t be ‘by that’.
tato tvaṁ, bāhiya, na tena.
When you’re not ‘by that’,
Yato tvaṁ, bāhiya, na tena;
you won’t be ‘in that’.
tato tvaṁ, bāhiya, na tattha.
When you’re not ‘in that’,
Yato tvaṁ, bāhiya, na tattha,
you won’t be in this world or the world beyond or between the two.
tato tvaṁ, bāhiya, nevidha na huraṁ na ubhayamantarena.
Just this is the end of suffering.”
Esevanto dukkhassā”ti.
Ud 1.10

“Form disappears for one proceeding how?
“Kathaṁ sametassa vibhoti rūpaṁ,
And how do happiness and suffering disappear?
Sukhaṁ dukhañcāpi kathaṁ vibhoti;
Tell me how they disappear;
Etaṁ me pabrūhi yathā vibhoti,
I think we ought to know these things.”
Taṁ jāniyāmāti me mano ahu”.

“Without normal perception or distorted perception;
“Na saññasaññī na visaññasaññī,
not lacking perception, nor perceiving what has disappeared.
Nopi asaññī na vibhūtasaññī;
Form disappears for one proceeding thus;
Evaṁ sametassa vibhoti rūpaṁ,
for concepts of identity due to proliferation spring from perception.”
Saññānidānā hi papañcasaṅkhā”.
Snp 4.11

What I believe has disappeared in Snp 4.11 is mediated form(what the worldling knows as form) and what remains is unmediated form(what the enlightened knows as form) due to the cessation of sañña and the arising of paññā.

Both either explicitly or implicitly mention the cessation of self when sañña ceases.

I am curious to hear what others think.

[Lajji]

From the Parayana Vagga( edit: Suttanipata)

Sukhanti diṭṭhamariyehi,
Sakkāyas­s­uparo­dhana­ṁ;
Paccanīkamidaṁ hoti,
Sabbalokena passataṁ.

The noble ones have seen as happiness
the ceasing of identity.
This insight by those who see
contradicts the whole world.
Snp3.12

I am limited in my expression in english.

Here, in my opinion, ‘Sakkāya’ is quite akin to the Sanskrit ‘Svarūpa’. So for me the above verse expresses a very strong Anatta doctrine without any remainders.

[Raftafarian]

I agree. I think that anatta is the outstanding feature of the passages in the context of the suttas.

I am curious if you understand the meanings of sanna and panna as mediated and unmediated knowing?

I ask because it seems to imply that for one to have panna/wisdom one must literally perceive sights and sounds differently. It is not just a case of not being attached. It is a state of altered perception.

[Lajji]

@Raftafarian

I am curious if you understand the meanings of sanna and panna as mediated and unmediated knowing?

I think so,

A post in a different forum

So i use mantra meditation (similar to tm) and i have a question.

After a while of mentally repeating the mantra, the sound of the mantra in my mind becomes quieter and quieter until it melts away and i don’t hear it anymore or feel the need to repeat it or hold on to it

When this happends i feel like a completely seperate self from thought, emotion and physical sensation (body). I can see a thought coming but it does not feel like it’s “me” it feels like i’m completely seperate from my body & mind and i can view everything from an outside perspective

The result is complete silence, i feel like i am only being, it feels like i step into the shoes of the observer and is free from any interference from both mind or body and this is done without any effort at all, i’m just in pure enjoyment of being

Then eventually i might get lost in a thought which pulls me back but then i just kindly return to the mantra and eventually return to “being” again

In my opinion,this does not mean activity of Sanna, vedana etc has ceased. Ok, there is subsiding of some dhammas and arising of some other dhammas such as Sati, Samadhi etc to a certain degree. Hence this sort of experience. But all these dhammas are conditioned.

”dukkhe loko patiṭṭhito” ti.

The world is grounded on suffering.
SN1.67

PS: Ok, there is degree of skillfulness,a certain going beyond extremes but stuck in the middle.