School shootings in US

Discussion
21

The father in the video was asking for security in schools. That’s an approach that comes from a quite different mindset than those who want to eliminate guns.

One aspect of that is called Active Shooter training.

Training and drills can be given to all students and “lock-down” drills should be required just a fire drills are now.
Although these events are statistically rare but the training is I think is psychologically useful and empowers even children to think about how they can save themselves and others. In many cases there is a lot that ordinary people can do for themselves … if they know some effective but simple options. It gives a different perspective on what a focused, serious practice might look like.

The response of the armed officer assigned to the Florida school was tragic as was the response of the first officers to respond. While a degree of political corruption has been suggested I would say that active shooter drills that included the officer assigned to the school might have changed things.

There are problems that require special preparation. For instance as is, the doors in many schools can’t be locked from the inside.

I thinking having a small number of trained adult staff with access to firearms (such as in a quick access safe) makes sense. This only makes sense for a minority of trained persons. It’s definitely not for everyone. Fortunately, with modern paint-ball style guns training can be made realistic and can be done regularly to keep skills sharp. I know a couple of people who have advanced firearm training – more training than most police officers get – and about half the time they were not the kind of person that I would have predicted as being highly trained fighters.

22

I’m interested in what it is in human emotions or thought/moral ideals that make such actions possible:
‘its ok to kill children’
‘its ok to develop an interest in weapons’
‘the ideal response to aggression is greater aggression’
…and so on.

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23

Children can be quite cruel. The psychological harm of cruel words and actions without physically touching combined with physical abuse brings that out. Schools, especially public schools are a place of great unhappiness to some kids.
Hearing the history of some of these killers is heartbreaking. But I think you know that @Mat. Yes?

The situation is complicated as modern anti-bullying programs generally don’t work and sometimes make the problem measurably worse. The advances in social psychology in that area have been basically zero. It’s come as kind of a shock to the field of positive psychology. What may work better is allowing relatively unsupervised, rough and tumble play or some other varient of the anti-fragile concept. Antifragility is a property of systems that increase in capability, resilience, or robustness as a result of stressors, shocks, volatility, noise, mistakes, faults, attacks, or failures.

I’m a strong supporter of tuition tax vouchers and charter schools that gives kids alternatives to the state run public schools. In my opinion the resistance of the special interests of public school administrators and teachers to such programs is a major example of greed and one of the major examples of inhumanity, in this case of inhumanity of adults to children in the USA.

Which makes life interesting because I have a high regard for schooling and teachers and for the value of effective labor unions. Love many of the teachers, accept the need for unions for labor relations but think the public employee union’s public policy positions make them more harmful than the NRA and bad corporations.

24

This video is about safety and security issues in churches. Safety means a number of things. There are some passages in the video that I found quite moving.
You can start at minute 13 to show practical compassionate planning for medical issues and for disruptive persons.

Often disruptive persons are in pain and this can been seen before they walk in the door. A member of our safety and security team would spot an individual who is suffering in the parking lot – it can be seen from their movement, posture and facial expression. When approached and asked “You look like you may be having problems, can I help you” people have broken down in tears. It’s my wife, my life, my job …

There is an aspect of this concern that wants to guided by wise compassion … and it is.

25

Yes but children in other countries are bullies too. But how do you go from ‘I was bullied’ to ‘that means I must murder them and other innocent people in my school’? It doesn’t add up…

With metta

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26

I found this interesting list on Wikipedia of attacks on primary schools. I don’t know how comprehensive the list is intended to be, but clearly outbursts of homicidal rage targeting children are not limited to the United States. Of interest, I thought, were the many knife attacks that resulted in many injuries but few fatalities.

27

Thank you for that - I think it broadens out my idea of US being the only place where it happens. Clearly it happens elsewhere too, but this article suggests it is all about the level of gun ownership and it’s toxic interaction with bullying, mental health, school environments, etc.

with metta

28

There can be an upside and a downside to this, depending on how one is trained. We need to be aware of the impact of how we condition our minds and the minds of children.

For many years, before becoming a Bhikkhuni, I helped develop standards for Emergency Management and developed or consulted on products for communications during an emergency situation, including for schools.

After the 9/11 World Trade Center incident, there was a lot of funding for research and development that spanned from being able to identify potential threats to protection and procedures during an event to management of resources during and after an event. I became certified for many roles within the Incident Command System and took part in a variety of training exercises and response planning development workshops and standards development committees. One of these conferences included debriefing on the Beslan school siege where over 300 people were killed.

One day I walked into a McDonalds near a university campus and realized that the first thing I did was scope out the layout of the restaurant, the people present, and where a potential “threat” could enter, which included the location of the students’ backpacks as they stood in line or sat in the restaurant. I realized I had become hyper-vigilant and was relating to the world with a “threat assessment” lens overlaying my experience.

After that, I chose to realign my personal focus to facilitating community and team building for emergency response through the Community Emergency Response Team and other similar programs and to focus on communication standards for Disaster Management. With this change of focus, I found I developed a different lens. My overlay for situational assessment was now one of being in a restaurant, (or city or region) together with others and that the people around me were potential allies in keeping a calm, supportive and safe environment.

The Buddhist principles within the Noble Eight Fold Path and within the Four Immeasurable, particularly compassion and equanimity, can be immensely helpful in setting our lens for crisis preparation, training, and response. A ‘focused, serious practice’, based in this way will help bring people together and will defuse the fear without replacing it with another fear or unwholesome mind state.

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29

Thank you very much for that. As I see it a certain number of secular security trainers also lean in that direction even if they don’t have the rich set of language and practice tools.

Do you understand that kind of work as consistent with precepts?
I see it as potentially as a work of compassion especially for those lay practitioners with the relevant backgrounds.

Do I assume correctly that the hyper-vigilance in and of itself was not a problem or the major problem. Rather it was more the “threat assessment” lens overlaying your perceptions and consciousness. Yes?

Beautiful. I think you have well expressed a outline and context that reflects well on the dharma.
Do you agree that a certain amount of group awareness and planning in a sanga for instance would add a lot to the potential effectiveness?

Thank you for your Disaster Management service in the past and today.

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30

I think if you add in the factors of anomie/social isolation then you begin to get closer. People feeling like they are abused is one thing (bullying). Add in a feeling of powerlessness then you get closer. Add in that they feel alone and without solid connections to others (family, friends, spriritual life, community) and its easier to depersonalize people and not care about them. Blend that with rage/anger then you have a recipe for school shootings or violence of some kind.

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31

One viewpoint from a clinical psychologist who has studied the writings of mass murders such as killers at Columbine High school.

Why Young Men Turn Violent – approx 5 min
Jordan Peterson on the Violence behind Parkland, Florida Tragedy

It’s some kind of irony of culture that the only interview of Dr Peterson after the Parkland shootings that I could find on youtube was this one from Fox News.

Peterson also spoke on this topic in 2014 in a lecture where he quoted at length from the social media of a school shooter.

The Productivity of War | The Forum | Stratford Festival 2014
Psychiatrist Jordan Peterson, of TVO’s Big Ideas, discusses the human thirst for war. What motivates the commission of atrocity? What is the relationship between belief and the regulation of emotion? Moderated by Paul Kennedy, host of CBC Radio’s Ideas.

Mass murder, senseless violence, random brutality. We’re all horrified by these things - yet they always seem to be with us. The human thirst for atrocity is at the heart of what psychologist Jordan Peterson has to say, in a talk he gave at the Stratford Festival, and in conversation with Paul Kennedy. Part of the answer lies in John Milton’s great poem, Paradise Lost. It turns out Milton had a lot to say about our appetite for violence 350 years ago.

The first murder took place between the first humans – Cain and Abel – and that legacy, of destroying ourselves and each other, has come down to us from the very beginning: the Creation story reminds us as much about of our tragic weakness as it does about our infinite potential as humans.
Violence continues to bewilder us. Why do we turn on each other? In particular, what is this lust for destruction that bursts forth – in individuals and in whole peoples – when everything else we know about ourselves tells us that we are caring and social creatures, devoted to our children and the possibilities of the future?
It’s easy to look at violence and war as anomalies of human nature, but there’s clearly something else going on. What’s the meaning of the Columbine and Sandy Hook school massacres, the bus bombings in Jerusalem, the Charlie Hebdo killings? Sometimes we think politics can explain these things, or a kind of madness, but what else might be behind such senseless acts? Acts that achieve no goal except a universal sadness about the human condition.
Jordan Peterson is a professor of psychology at the University of Toronto and a clinical psychologist. At the Stratford Festival last summer he explored some of these questions.

This is an edited extract from the lecture above in .mp3 audio format.

A History of Violence
mp3 edited for broadcast with edited extracts of entire talk minus the Q&A
CBC News · July 10, 2015

32

Here are things that are true as much as such statements can be said to be true.

  1. In the US the deciding case on gun regulation is District of Columbia v. Heller. 2008. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller
    Heller ruled that a) the Second Amendment protects an individual’s right to possess a firearm b) the right to bear arms is not unlimited and that guns and gun ownership would continue to be regulated.
  2. Heller was narrowly decided (5 to 4) to affirm the decision of a district appeals court.
  3. 2/3 or more US citizens believe that they have a individual right to possess firearms.
  4. In Heller the number of amicus curiae (friend of the court) briefs in support of the decision outnumbered the opposition briefs by more than 2 to 1.
  5. Reports are that the majority of law professors agree with Heller.
    http://linguafranca.mirror.theinfo.org/0002/showdown.html
    SHOWDOWN - Liberal Legal Scholars Are Supporting The Right to Bear Arms.
  6. Scholarship on the 2nd amendment has a somewhat “embarrassing” history.
    http://polyticks.com/polyticks/beararms/emb2nda2.htm
    The Embarassing Second Amendment, Yale Law Review

The next set of statements I believe to be true.

Australia’s gun buy back program was a mandatory program. That form of gun control would be unconstitutional in the US. Takings or bannings have to be narrowly and carefully constructed. A blanket program would likely to be widely opposed. (2 of 3 citizens supporting gun ownership as a individual right.)

A few states have passed laws requiring registration of some types of firearms. Estimates are that significant numbers firearms were not registered.

It’s reasonable to assume that significant numbers of citizens would ignore some forms of gun regulation in much the way many ignore marijuana laws or practice civil disobedience.

In the US juries are reluctant to convict on marijuana possession. Constitutional decisions make it clear that juries have a right to use their own judgement when deciding cases.

Many police departments will not arrest people for marijuana possessed in small amounts. The reasons given are the cost of booking and processing and the inability to win prosecutions.

It’s reported that when errors are found on gun registrations and it appears that a gun should not have been sold the responsible agency, the BAFT, may not pursue the issue. Prosecutions for giving false information on required gun purchase applications are very rare.

33

I’m probably being naive, but isn’t it beyond the power of those in positions of power to change the constitution or develop a workaround?

Its interesting that another aggressive act- one turned inwards is suicide, and also occurs in similar situations of desperation (‘nihilism’ isn’t outwardly aggressive). Feeling alienated, and not having purpose and hope in life, can be soul destroying. The point is all this is pretty much psychological if not ‘social’ issues. It isn’t easily captured in government statistics.

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34

A “workaround” for what?

Heller allows for many forms of regulation – no constitutional workaround need.

Yes the constitution can be changed. The process was designed so that it’s not easy.

  • The 18th amendment - alcohol prohibition – was passed in 1917.
  • The most recent amendment, the 27th – a somewhat technical thing about congressional salaries – was passed in 1992.
  • The last widely controversial amendment was the repeal of prohibition in 1933.
  • The last civil rights amendment – one that guaranteed voting rights to citizens over the age of 18 – was passed in 1972.

…

  • Polls show that a super majority support the current ruling in Heller.
  • It appears that a majority of constitution law experts do or at least, regardless of their preferred opinion, admit that the arguments in support of Heller are somewhat reasonable and creditable.
  • A estimated %40 to %45 of households have a firearm.

As a practical political matter I predict that situation will hold.

The debate is over what regulation is reasonable and effective.

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35

The hopeful note is that many say that some regular contact with a single, mature adult of character has a powerful impact on children and teenagers.

The tragedy of a government run school system is the combination of a “objective” hiring system and teacher requirements are not conducive for hiring and retaining such people as teachers.

In my opinion school choice has to be included as part of the solution to school violence. I expect that to some people school choice really doesn’t count as a serious solution. Which may help to explain why the status quo is hard to change.

36

Jordan Peterson? He’s the go-to guy isn’t he? :smile:

37

I think there is a similar bias when it comes to research on alcohol in UK! Population based methods of reducing suicide has been shown to be very effective- so reducing the amount of paracetamol someone can buy at a single time, has reduced the number of completed suicides, as well as the number of liver transplants following liver failure from such attempts. Reducing the lead in petrol, I believe had a similar effect. So population based prevenatative methods can be quite effective, I think.

with metta

38

What’s wrong with his scientific credentials? I mean, one can believe his political and social views are completely wrong or harmful, but the psychology of school shooters is something he can make qualified comments about.

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39

Mr. “Feynman”, you still decline to reveal who you are, don’t you?

40

One term that approximates the meaning of “arms” in the early Buddhist texts is “danda.” In its most literal sense, as I understand it, this term means “stick” or “rod”. But it is used in Indian thought more generally to refer to coercion, especially the coercive function of government and the state. We know much of what the Buddha thought about danda. There is an entire sutta that warns about the dangers of “taking up the rod”.

The Buddha wasn’t much interested in what people had a “right” to, according to some worldly political code. He was interested in what was good for people, and what caused harm for oneself and others. He believed these harms were intimately connected: the harms we inflict on others with greedy and aggressive intention tend to harm our own hearts, and when we harm ourselves, the spiritually damage we have done tends to spin out into the world to harm others.

The sage is liberated from the sense of a personal territory that needs to be defended, and is thus utterly free of anger and any urge toward violence. Worrying about whether one has a right to take up arms, from a Buddhist perspective, is like worrying about whether one has a right to stab oneself in the heart with an arrow.

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