So here is SN 22.81
First the Buddha describes that anyone who regard form or feeling or perception or choices or consciousness as self is:
”An unlearned ordinary person who has not seen the noble ones, and is neither skilled nor trained in the teaching of the noble ones. They’ve not seen true persons, and are neither skilled nor trained in the teaching of the true persons.”
This teaching of NOT regarding form or feeling or perception or choices or consciousness as self is distincly buddhist, right?
So EVERYONE following the buddhist teachings agrees 100% with the statement above. No other sect or school promoting this type of teaching, right?
Good.
But then the Buddha goes on to say:
”Perhaps they don’t regard form or feeling or perception or choices or consciousness as self. Still, they have such a view: ‘The self and the cosmos are one and the same. After passing away I will be permanent, everlasting, eternal, and imperishable.’ But that eternalist view is just a conditioned phenomenon. And what’s the source of that conditioned phenomenon? … That’s how you should know and see in order to end the defilements in the present life.”
Here things get a little tricky, these buddhists do adhere 100% to NOT regarding form or feeling or perception or choices or consciousness as self and remember this teaching is ONLY found in buddhism yet the Buddha continues despite this with saying: Still, they have such a view: ‘The self and the cosmos are one and the same. After passing away I will be permanent, everlasting, eternal, and imperishable.’
We can therefore call this wrong view the disctinctly buddhist and nothing but buddhist wrong view: Nibbāna is eternalism
Some other buddhists of course refute this wrong view of ”eternalism Nibbāna” by pointing out that ”form or feeling or perception or choices or consciousness are not-self”.
Hence ”the khandhas were selfless from the get go, there never was an ”I” or self to begin with”. And other statements of similar reasoning.
It’s quite natural they raise this issue, but please keep in mind that both the eternalist-buddhists and these other buddhists in the sutta still adhere to form or feeling or perception or choices or consciousness as not-self. Something only found in buddhism.
The difference between their views is only found in: ”The self and the cosmos are one and the same. After passing away I will be permanent, everlasting, eternal, and imperishable.’”
And then the Buddha goes on by saying:
”Perhaps they don’t regard form or feeling or perception or choices or consciousness as self. Nor do they have such a view: ‘The self and the cosmos are one and the same. After passing away I will be permanent, everlasting, eternal, and imperishable.’ Still, they have such a view: ‘I might not be, and it might not be mine. I will not be, and it will not be mine.’ But that annihilationist view is just a conditioned phenomenon. ”
So now we have yet another view, we can call this disctinctly buddhist and nothing but buddhist wrong view: Nibbāna is annihilation
So even if these buddhists with this specific view were right in refuting the ”eternalists” they do it only based on their own misconception of Nibbāna. Namely that since the ”khandas are selfless” Nibbāna must equal total annihilation.
It is obvious the whole sutta only has to do with buddhists who already adhere to form or feeling or perception or choices or consciousness as not-self and is therefore about the wrong views that ONLY buddhists can have…
”I will not be, and it will not be mine.” is the wrong view of the annihilation-buddhists and to those with this wrong view how could Nibbāna even be anything at all or let alone experienced when the ”khandhas are selfless” and ”there is nothing more”. Making Nibbāna into a permanent annihilation resulting in 100% unconscioussness cessation. Yet the Buddha obviously refutes their view as wrong in the sutta in question.
Among all those mentioned the only thing they have in common is that all adhere to not regarding form or feeling or perception or choices or consciousness as self. Yet they do quarrel about eternalism versus annihilationism from their own respective wrong views.
Then the Buddha highlights the next group who also rejects annihilationism:
Perhaps they don’t regard form or feeling or perception or choices or consciousness as self. Nor do they have such a view: ‘The self and the cosmos are one and the same. After passing away I will be permanent, everlasting, eternal, and imperishable.’ Nor do they have such a view: ‘I might not be, and it might not be mine. I will not be, and it will not be mine.’ Still, they have doubts and uncertainties. They’re undecided about the true teaching. That doubt and uncertainty, the indecision about the true teaching, is just a conditioned phenomenon. And what’s the source of that conditioned phenomenon? When an unlearned ordinary person is struck by feelings born of contact with ignorance, craving arises. That conditioned phenomenon is born from that. So that conditioned phenomenon is impermanent, conditioned, and dependently originated. And that craving, that feeling, that contact, and that ignorance are also impermanent, conditioned, and dependently originated. That’s how you should know and see in order to end the defilements in the present life.”
Need I remind everybody one more time that this sutta is NOT about refuting ”brahmanical” or other eternalist views found among other ascetics nor is it a refutation of the annihilationism found among materialists worldview or the ascetics who make it as far as the dimension of nothingness…OK?
NO, this sutta ONLY has to do with the wrong views a buddhist can have and none other than a buddhist, but by using the same phrasing and formulas.
How could otherwise ALL those with wrong views mentioned in the sutta STILL adhere to NOT regarding form or feeling or perception or choices or consciousness as self which is DISTINCTLY buddhist?
If anyone disagrees I would love to know your thoughts as to why and help me see exactly how ”my” understanding of the message in the sutta is completely wrong.
The main underlying theme of this whole sutta is:
‘How do you know and see in order to end the defilements in the present life?’
Ending the defilements leads to???