SuttaCentral

Suicide cases in Ebts, and considered arahant . And mahasamadhi


#1

I’d like to know your opinions on this sutta sn.22.84 SuttaCentral and mn144 SuttaCentral

If parinibbana means to shed the body, even with force or suicide, then it seems to in line with hinduism maha-samadhi

https://www.google.com.hk/search?q=maha+samadhi&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-hk&client=safari


#2

Greetings Hwbao

This subject has been discussed before - (though without the focus on comparing it to hinduism).

There is an in depth discussion about the 2 suttas you quote, and the issues surrounding it, to be found here.


#3

No, nothing to do with it. The Theravada cases involve monks gravely ill, similar to euthanasia, and takes the form of suicide to prevent another transgressing by assisting.


#4

I would be careful of this topic, because we have a lot of mentally ill people who frequent this forum (like all online fora) and it only takes one self-proclaimed internet arhat to decide killing himself is the most legitimate thing to do and then it’s done. Just my opinion, maybe it is overly cautious.


#5

It is a very good point @Coemgenu, but I’d just like to re-frame the bellow statement :slight_smile:

IMO the labelling of someone as mentally ill is not really relevant - but we have a lot (if not all) of participants who are suffering to a greater or lesser degree, and looking for relief and escape from suffering :pray:

As such, in certain circumstances it is normal for the mind to latch onto certain concepts or views and interpret them in a way that may not be beneficial. If this is taken to the point of suicide - this is a very unfortunate outcome.

Hence the very clear message by the Buddha, that only those who no longer possess a self, for whom the path is finished, who are no longer subject to conditioning or delusion, are in a position to absolutely understand a blameless action in this case.


#6

Thanks for pointing out the discussed topic🙏🏻

It seems maha parinibbana sutta also included where Buddha eats his poisoned food knowingly.

So it is actually ok to suicide, but only for arahants, where sometimes the 5 khandas become extremley burdened.

This blameless sword is not an easy task though, at least , I guess one should be able to perform nirodha, keep on checking the khandas whethere there is stil upadana.

Different from those with suicidal tendency would be that if condition changed, or if they have wonderful 5 khandas ,they would also changed their mind. “If I’m the most wonderful person on planet , I wont do suicide”

Arahants will not stop suicide because of those reasons, they simply lay down 5 khandas for its absurdity in keeping on holding.

Maha samadhi might be better choice because no weapon involved. Like in one of sutta where a general upon reached arahant through hearing buddha sayings. Rose in the sky and burn out his body ( I forget which sutta, anyone?)


#7

"…it is significant that the Mahāparinibbāna-sutta and its parallels agree that the Buddha
gave up his life deliberately.66 Needless to say, the description of this act of deliberately letting his life end cannot have been intended to portray him acting with
an unwholesome state of mind. This in turn indicates that tradition did envisage that such a decision can be taken without being motivated by defilements.
In other words, this passage portrays a fully awakened one taking the deliberate
decision to let life end.67 Unlike the other cases discussed so far — Channa, Vakkali
and Dabba — the report of the Buddha’s deliberate letting his life end does not
appear to have led to ambivalence in later tradition regarding the possibility that
an awakened one could take the decision to end his or her own life.
The fact that the parallel versions of the Mahāparinibbāna-sutta unanimously
attribute the Buddha’s passing away to a conscious decision taken by him, even
though he would have been able to live longer, provides a strong argument in
favour of the notion that, according to early Buddhist canonical literature, a fully
awakened one can deliberately end his or her own life. "—Analayo


#8

Yes I do agree from the point of view that letting something to end a life and using a weapon to end a life is not same.
But maybe someone would argue how about letting the car do go on till end of a cliff would be different.

Yes in the common , arahant seems to have a choice to end their life, like Mahasi always mention how arahant waiting for the pay days (parinibbana) because no other further tasks to do anymore , but just an endurance of the 5 khandas. Pa-Auk sayadaw also said so.

To add one more arahant on suicide sn4.23 SuttaCentral , he seems to do suicide because he could not have a firm stay in nibbana bliss or aka nirodha samapatti .

See how the case differ of another mass suicide events in sutta sn54.9 SuttaCentral

In maha samadhi, They said don’t end life because of the pain or suffering or something unfulfilled, but because it is fully lived, there is no more in cosmos or other realms to offer you…so in buddhism it would be : only when you’re fully awakened, full cessation of dukha, full cessation of a being, no more coming and going.