The Curious Case of the Sotāpanna & Sakadagami

The sutta referenced above seems to hint that stream winners can attain to Jhanas and be reborn in the Brahma realms.

To categorically say that stream winners cannot be found in the Brahma realms seems illogical as it implies that attaining to the fruit of stream entry makes one unable to attain to Jhanas. Whereas normal ordinary worldling can attain to Jhanas. Makes no sense. If anything, it should be much easier to attain to Jhanas for the stream winner as doubt is not an issue out of the 5 hindrances. Less hindrances to attain the Jhanas.

Same logic applies to once returner. I see the statement of coming back to this world, the “this world” includes the sensual desire realm as a whole, not just human realms.

Why have lust for stuffs when one sees Nibbana? Cause one has not tasted Nibbana with the body yet.

https://suttacentral.net/sn12.68/en/sujato?layout=plain&reference=none&notes=asterisk&highlight=false&script=latin

“I have truly seen clearly with right wisdom that the cessation of continued existence is extinguishment. Yet I am not a perfected one. Suppose there was a well on a desert road that had neither rope nor bucket. Then along comes a person struggling in the oppressive heat, weary, thirsty, and parched. They’d know that there was water, but they couldn’t physically touch it.

In the same way, I have truly seen clearly with right wisdom that the cessation of continued existence is extinguishment. Yet I am not a perfected one.”

Without the taste of the ultimate bliss, it’s possible for the mind to still seek happiness from sensual pleasures.

Even those who attained to Jhanas, if they become slack, lazy to meditate, not diligent in meditation, the source of joy and happiness or bliss from Jhanas is not there, the mind would be seeking from other sources. Hence that’s why people can lose Jhanas.

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