I’ve been reading more into Jainism lately, and its interesting to see that Uddaka Rāmaputta makes an appearance in some of their early literature. It seems for the Jains Uddaka Rāmaputta wasn’t part of Jainism but, according to them, he taught things which were close to Jainism and so he was respected. One text which mentions him is the Ṛṣibhāṣita. Unfortunately I can’t find an English translation, but I’ve found this summary of the text. This is the section on Uddaka Rāmaputta:
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Interesting to note that here it said he taught “knowledge, perception and conduct”. In the Theravādin suttas its said he taught wisdom, mindfulness, energy, faith and concentration but in the parallels we only find faith, energy and wisdom.
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The Mahāvastu, from the Mahāsāṃghika, also associates Uddaka Rāmaputta and also Āḷāra Kālāma with Jainism
(118) Now at that time in the great city of Veśālī there dwelt Ārāḍa Kālāma,[26] who was honoured, revered, respected, worshipped and praised by three hundred disciples. To his Jain disciples[27] he preached as his doctrine the dogma of what is to be doubted.[28] He exhorted them thus: “See, see; renounce, renounce.” And his disciples responded, “We see, we see; we renounce, we renounce, we and the others.”
Then, monks, the thought occurred to me: “What now if I were to practise the holy life as a disciple of Ārāḍa[29]?” So I went to Ārāḍa Kālāma and said to him, “I would wish to lead the holy life as a disciple of the venerable Ārāḍa.”
When I had thus spoken, Ārāḍa Kālāma replied, “Do so, O Gotama. Such is this doctrine and rule,[30] that, should a young noble practise the holy life in faith, he would attain to states of virtue.”
This thought came to me, monks: “I, too, have will, strength, and energy. Let me then set out to win and realise this dharma.” And by abiding solitary, diligent, earnest, resolute and secluded[31] I was not long in understanding and realising this dharma…
Now at that time in Rājagṛha there dwelt Udraka Rāmaputra,[33] who was honoured, revered, respected and worshipped by seven hundred disciples. He preached to his Jain disciples as his doctrine the dogma concerning the sphere of what is neither consciousness nor unconsciousness.[34] He exhorted his disciples thus, “See, see; renounce, renounce.” And his disciples responded, “We see, we see; we renounce, we renounce, we and the others.”
Then, monks, the thought occurred to me: “What now if I were to practise the holy life as a disciple of Udraka Rāmaputra?” So, monks, I went to Udraka Rāmaputra and said to him, “O Udraka, I would wish to live the holy life as your disciple. Will the worthy Udraka allow me?” When I had thus spoken, Udraka replied, “Then live here, O Gotama, dwell here, O Gotama. Such is this doctrine and rule of mine that, should a young noble (120) practise the holy life in faith, he would attain to states of virtue.”
Then, monks, the thought occurred to me, “I, too, have will, strength, and energy. Let me then abide solitary, diligent, earnest, resolute and secluded in order to attain and realise this dharma.” And so, monks, by abiding solitary, diligent, earnest, resolute and secluded in order to attain and realise this dharma, I was not long in understanding and realising it…
Here “will, strength and energy” are associated with their teachings.
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The Ṛṣibhāṣita(or in Jain Ardhamagadhi Isibhasiyaim) is a fascinating text, and a testament to the broad-mindedness of the Jains of old.
The passage as translated above doesn’t really make sense. Why would he teach his own students about what to doubt? I think it’s a mistranslation. The passage:
tena khalu punaḥ samayena Vaiśālyāṃ nagaryāṃ Ārāḍo Kālāmo prativasati trayāṇāṃ śrāvakaśatānāṃ satkṛto gurukṛto mānito pūjito arcito. so Jinaśrāvakāṇām āśaṃkitavyasahavratāyai dharmaṃ deśayati. so Jinaśrāvakāṇām evam āha “paśyatha paśyatha prajahatha prajahatha”. te pi taṃ śrāvakā evam āhaṃsuḥ “paśyāmaḥ paśyāmaḥ prajahāmaḥ prajahāmaḥ vayaṃ cânye ca”
The key is that there’s no genitive linking Ārāḍa Kālāma with the Jain disciples: they are not “his”. So I think it should be translated:
Now at that time in the great city of Veśālī there dwelt Ārāḍa Kālāma, who was honoured, revered, respected, worshipped and praised by three hundred disciples. To disciples of the Jains he taught the doctrine of what is to be doubted, including the vows. He exhorted them thus: “See, see; abandon, abandon.” And his disciples responded, “We see, we see; we abandon, we abandon, we and the others.”
Once we don’t treat them as “his” disciples, it becomes straightforward: it’s a conversion narrative. He taught the Jains (as did the Buddha later on), showing them what was dubious in their teaching and vows (as the Buddha did later on), encouraging them to “see” (i.e. directly experience the teaching; in MN 101 the Buddha says his teaching was visible and the Jain teaching was not) and “abandon” (the Jain teaching) which they and others did (and as did many under the Buddha also). Thus the passage sets up the Buddha’s former teachers as the original critics and converters of Jains, setting the template that we see later in the Buddha’s life.
Note too that the emphasis on “seeing” recalls DN 29:16.13, “seeing, one does not see”, attributed there to Uddaka Rāmaputta. This is a distorted reference to Bṛhadāraṇyaka Upaniṣad 1.4.7.
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One has to keep in mind that the Jain texts are nowhere near as old as Buddhist texts.
Thanks for the correction Bhante. I must admit I didn’t look at the original language (BHS?). On a related note we see in the suttas the phrase (or mantra?) “I don’t belong to anyone anywhere. And nothing belongs to me anywhere.” being associated with the Jains, but also with the ākiñcaññāyatana attainment. So there is a connection there between Jainism and Āḷāra Kālāma. What are your thoughts on this?
Sorry, I’m out on pindapata in a minute, could you help me out by chasing down the references?
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Yes sure. In AN 3.70 we are told that a Jain practice is to practice “I don’t belong to anyone anywhere! And nothing belongs to me anywhere!”. Now in AN 4.185 and MN 106 this is associated with attaining ākiñcaññāyatana
And what is the sabbath of the Jains? There’s a kind of ascetic belonging to a group called the Jains. They encourage their disciples: ‘Please, good people, don’t hurt any living creatures more than a hundred leagues away to the east. Don’t hurt any living creatures more than a hundred leagues away to the west. Don’t hurt any living creatures more than a hundred leagues away to the north. Don’t hurt any living creatures more than a hundred leagues away to the south.’ So they encourage kindness and compassion for some creatures and not others. On the sabbath, they encourage their disciples: ‘Please, good people, take off all your clothes and say: “I don’t belong to anyone anywhere! And nothing belongs to me anywhere!”’ But their mother and father still know, ‘This is our child.’ And they know, ‘This is my mother and father.’ Partner and child still know, ‘This is our supporter.’ And they know, ‘This is my partner and child.’ Bondservants, workers, and staff still know: ‘This is our master.’ And they know, ‘These are my bondservants, workers, and staff.’ So, at a time when they should be encouraged to speak the truth, the Jains encourage them to lie. This, I say, is lying. When the night has passed they use their possessions once more, though they’ve not been given back to them. This, I say, is stealing. That’s the sabbath of the Jains. When the Jain’s sabbath is observed like this it’s not very fruitful or beneficial or splendid or bountiful.
AN 3.70
Take another brahmin who says: ‘I don’t belong to anyone anywhere. And nothing belongs to me anywhere.’ Saying this, a brahmin speaks the truth, not lies. But they don’t think of themselves as an ‘ascetic’ or ‘brahmin’ because of that. Nor do they think ‘I’m better’ or ‘I’m equal’ or ‘I’m worse’. Rather, they simply practice the path of nothingness, having had insight into the truth of that.
AN 4.185
Furthermore, a noble disciple reflects: ‘I don’t belong to anyone anywhere! And nothing belongs to me anywhere!’ Practicing in this way and meditating on it often their mind becomes confident in this dimension. Being confident, they either attain the dimension of nothingness now, or are freed by wisdom. When their body breaks up, after death, it’s possible that the consciousness headed that way will be reborn in the dimension of nothingness. This is said to be the third way of practice suitable for attaining the dimension of nothingness.
MN 106
Oh cool, well as it happens I’m doing annotations for MN 105 today and MN 106 hopefully tomorrow, so I’ll have a bit of a delve into this phrase then. But yes, you’re right the same phrase is associated with Jains, Brahmins, and Buddhists. There are a number of such shared doctrines, the brahmaviharas and (roughly) the five precepts coming to mind.
The difference is the context. Buddhists and Brahmins shared the formless attainments, but for the Jains, the statement is associated with simply taking your clothes off and saying you have no attachments. So on initial glance it looks like a shared saying across the different groups, but applied in a very different way by the jains.
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I had thought that, but its also possible that some Jains were practicing the formless attainments. We do have an admittedly later text which states that Uddaka Rāmaputta’s doctrine was close to Jainism. There was most likely a lot of borrowing between traditions, just like there was in medieval times and even today. I think you have mentioned this before.