The Problem With Disregarding the Distinction Between Renunciant and Lay Practice

Might it have led you to develop right livelihood more suitably?
Perhaps choosing a more suitable livelihood for yourself?

Mara’s snare is very tricky, so even if we may be conceptually aware of the flaw, doesn’t necessarily mean that we are able to guard against taking the bait. I think the Buddha said that only those who have developed the jhanas are capable of making themselves immune to the appeal of Mara’s bait.

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Though this thread has been idle for almost a month, I’d just like to add another thought —

I’ve been reading through the Samyutta Nikaya, and one thing that I’ve noticed is that the first of the five Vaggas is the Sagatha, which is dedicated to verses. I would submit that this section is unfairly neglected. Lots of the stuff involving the devas and/or King Pasenadi is actually quite lay-appropriate.



SN3.15:9.1: A killer creates a killer; a conqueror creates a conqueror; an abuser creates abuse, and a bully creates a bully. And so as deeds unfold the plunderer is plundered.”


Sorry for the lateness of this reply.

Actually, no, this is not the Therī Dhammadinnā, but a lay follower (with his own band of followers, it seems), Dhammadinna. Respectively, they share feminine (Dhammadinnā) and masculine (Dhammadinna) forms of the same name. Also, Dhammadinna is referred to, in the masculine, as the “layman Dhammadinna” in the sutta (dhammadinno upāsako).

Yeah, I agree, and it doesn’t seem to be the far-away goal so many make it out to be.

In addition, I really like what is kind of like a parallel sutta, AN 5.176:

" Then Anathapindika the householder, surrounded by about 500 lay followers, went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side. As he was sitting there the Blessed One said to him, “Householder,… you should train yourself, ‘Let’s periodically enter & remain in seclusion & rapture.’ That’s how you should train yourself.”

Again, just like in the Dhammadinna Sutta, the directive addressed to lay follower (again, with five hundred disciples?) to periodically (kālena kālaṃ; literally: “from time to time”) go beyond typical “five-precepts plus dāna” lay practice. That, plus eight precepts from time to time is usually good enough for me.