The thorny issue of anatta

[Viveka]

@JDavid

I think that anicca is only understood to be dukkha or soon lead to dukkha in the presence of craving or clinging. However, I haven’t found a clear statement of that in the EBTs.

Perhaps look at the sequences of cause and effect in Dependent liberation. This is a good place to start

@Gabriel

How to interpret “cessation”?

Dependent Liberation by Bhikkhu Brahmali:dl.pdf (171.8 KB)

@Brahmali

To fully understand the conditionality that applies in DO we need to take a broader look at the suttas . I believe the best place to start is with the abstract principle of conditionality, which invariably is followed by the standard set of twelve links. It reads as follows in Ven. Bodhi’s translation:

Iti imasmiṃ sati idaṃ hoti, imassuppādā idaṃ uppajjati. Imasmiṃ asati idaṃ na hoti, imassa nirodhā idaṃ nirujjhati . (e.g. at SN 12.21)

When this exists, that comes to be; with the arising of this, that arises. When this does not exist, that does not come to be; with the cessation of this, that ceases.

Here we have, I think, an almost perfect match with sufficient and necessary conditionality. “When this exists, that comes to be; with the arising of this, that arises” shows sufficiency, whereas “with the cessation of this, that ceases; with the cessation of this, that ceases” shows necessity. If we are to take anything as the paradigm of conditionality that applies for DO, I would say this is it. It seems to me that DN 15 does not give the full story, but instead focuses on a particular aspect.

@sujato

The Book of Causation (Nidānavagga) is the second of the five books of the Linked Discourses. It is named after the first and longest section, the Nidāna Saṁyutta. This deals with causation through the core Buddhist teaching of dependent origination, which explains how rebirth happens without a soul. The next three saṁyuttas can be seen as appendices to the Book of Causation, dealing with the elimination of the suffering of transmigration (SN 13), various sets of conditioned elements (SN 14), and the unknowability of the extent of transmigration (SN 15).

@sujato

The theme of causation runs through all the Buddha’s teaching. We find it in contexts such as meditation practice, societal ills, biological evolution, medicine, psychological stress, and many more. However, when we refer to dependent origination we are not speaking about a general principle of causality—although such a principle is presented at SN 12.21—but of a specific series of conditional links laying bare how suffering originates and how it ends. As such, it is an extended treatment of the second and third noble truths (SN 12.27). It integrates psychological and existential aspects of suffering, showing how, when bound by craving, we make choices that bind us to transmigrating into future lives (SN 12.38). The reason why we have not escaped the process of rebirth is that we do not understand dependent origination (SN 12.60). Thus one of the core purposes of the teaching is to explain how rebirth takes place without speaking in terms of “me” or “mine” (SN 12.37).

So from a perspective of causes and conditions one comes to a place where basically Impermanence > No self > No craving…

I’m not sure if the logical links are clear in this cut and paste - but a direction for you to explore some more anyway