SuttaCentral
Yes, the freedom of being an island unto oneself is liberating. The Buddha’s utterance on subjugation from Visākhā Sutta :
All subjection to others is painful.
All independence is bliss.
What is held in common brings suffering,
for duties are hard to overcome.
"During the Dhamma talk he kept on stressing that women are less intelligent and inferior to men. "
This is really against the teaching of The Buddha.
At the time of giving ordination to Gotami He clearly told Ven Ananda about equality in realizing the Truth.
"bhabbo, ānanda, mātugāmo tathāgatappavedite dhammavinaye agārasmā anagāriyaṃ pabbajitvā sotāpattiphalampi sakadāgāmiphalampi anāgāmiphalampi arahattaphalampi sacchikātu”
@Sumanatissa
Dear bhante ,
May I ask , at the time when the Buddha still alive , has any females disciples ever disagrees with the Vinaya ?
I never came across such a situation in EBT.
My impression of the whole bhikkhunis, gender, etc. issues is that it’s in some sense a catch-22. If you don’t speak or act for reform, you’re part of the problem, a misogynist, supporting patriarchy, etc. If you do speak or act for reform, you’re full of wrongheaded non-Dhammic passion, trying to cause a schism in the Sangha, a social justice warrior, etc. Those are the extreme ends of how the extremists on each side can view others. Both ends are detrimental to everyone and to making progress on this issue. Anyone who expresses such views has lost most of their credibility with me on this issue. And I imagine I’m not the only moderate type person who thinks this way.
Actually if you consider the Gotami account accurate, then there is the account of her going back to the Buddha and asking for some of the Garudhammas to be rescinded.
There are also many examples of both nuns and monks from the EBTs being described not keeping patimokkha rules.
Perhaps the question in Op is about whether Buddha would have had those Vinaya rues if he alive now. Now the women are more on par with men.
They do not need the protection of men. They have the financial freedom etc.
This problem is something similar to people trying to rewrite the bible or Koran.
I have no answer to these question except to say all of these are Maras bate and part of Samsara. The conventional reality vs ultimate.
If your true objective is to attain Nibbana any of these not matters.
Not keeping rules and Opposing is totally different issues !
The majority of females in Asia and south east Asia is still very much dependent !
Looking at the constant Rape cases in India could give you a hint !
Agree.
I have the firsthand experience in this case as I am from Sri Lanka.
Women are still very much helpless in these societies.
Then the question comes whether we should have different Vinya rules for Western monks and nuns.
Actually, the law protects women than men in Western countries specially it come to family matters.
It does not matter how progressive the western world we still have separate public toilets for men and women. Then we have nude beaches. Now I am totally confused.
This is getting off topic. Please return to the original OP topic.
Progressive does not necessary mean we have to change everything in the vinaya !
As this topic has strayed from the original OP topic, it has now been closed.
