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Trying to find a sutta about wrongdoers not experiencing bad karma this life

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sila
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#1

Hi, everyone,

I’m trying to recall a sutta I read a while back, but have since been unable to find again. In this sutta, the Buddha warns that wrongdoers don’t always experience the bad karma in this lifetime, but will in a future life . He gives some example of a criminal who is hired by a king to do something immoral (like killing or stealing or something) and ends up being rewarded. Does this sutta ring a bell for anyone?

I found this sutta curious because it seems to throw a wrench in the idea the Buddha promoted in the Kalama sutta, that virtue is worth it, even if the afterlife doesn’t exist.


#2

True. Try living a thug life…


#3

Found it:

There are some ascetics and brahmins who have this doctrine and view: ‘Everyone who kills living creatures experiences pain and sadness in the present life. Everyone who steals … commits sexual misconduct … lies experiences pain and sadness in the present life.’

But you can see someone, garlanded and adorned, nicely bathed and anointed, hair and beard dressed, taking his pleasure with women as if he were a king. You might ask someone: ‘Mister, what did that man do?’ And they’d reply: ‘Mister, that man attacked the king’s enemy and killed them. The king was delighted and gave him this reward. That’s why he’s garlanded and adorned, nicely bathed and anointed, hair and beard dressed, taking his pleasure with women as if he were a king.’

And you can see someone else, his arms tied tightly behind his back with a strong rope. His head is shaven and he’s marched from street to street and from square to square to the beating of a harsh drum. Then he’s taken out the south gate and there, to the south of the city, they chop off his head. You might ask someone: ‘Mister, what did that man do?’ And they’d reply: ‘Mister, that man is an enemy of the king who has murdered a man or a woman. That’s why the rulers arrested him and inflicted such punishment.’

What do you think, chief? Have you seen or heard of such a thing?”

“Sir, we have seen it and heard of it, and we will hear of it again.”

“Since this is so, the ascetics and brahmins whose view is that everyone who kills living creatures experiences pain and sadness in the present life: are they right or wrong?”

“They’re wrong, sir.” - SN 42.13

:anjal:


#4

Yup, that’s it! Thank you :heart:


#5

If there is no self, what is reborn in the Buddhist version of hell? Also, if there is no creator god, then who or what created hell?


#6

Why do you need to start with the assumption that for something to exist, someone must have made it?