No, it’s not an attack. It’s a calm and cool description of what he is doing, and I have a mountain of evidence in pali & english audits posted here publicly, organized neatly, easy to check and confirm the claims for yourself.
In EBTs Parivitakka is questioning.
Anuvitakka and vitakka look the same and deal with thinking about craving, anger and delusion. Because those defilements are not found in jhana it is a different creature.
I’m sorry, but is there a war going on that requires munitions? 
The Buddha teaches relinquishment, not hoarding.
see post #78 in this thread where i quote many passages using anu-vitakketi. it’s ‘thinking’ and pondering Dhamma, after hearing it. The pali+english are there.
pari-vitakka is not just related to questions.
I really don’t know where you get your ideas sometimes. kāma-chanda (sensual desire) is bad. Chanda-samadhi is good. Chanda (desire) on its own doesn’t mean good or bad, or can’t happen in jhana. Vitakka is also good or bad, and doesn’t mean it can’t happen in first jhana. If you have an akusala thought in first jhana, then you’ve exited first jhana. If you have a kusala vitakka related to Dhamma, then it’s perfectly legal. Even in second jhana, you could have perceptions and attention of a vitakka that’s bubbling underneath but hasn’t fully formed yet. that would make it an impure second jhana. See SN 40.1, SN 40.2
I’m not talking about Chanda but Kaama-vitakka.
Vitakka happens in the first jhana but if it linked to craving or aversion then it isn’t part of the first jhana.
You cannot have an akusala thought there; all akusala thoughts occur outside the first jhana.
That would make it impure. In fact, that is what a purified first jhana vitakka vicara is experienced as. There is the potential for thinking.
If there is no distinction between the thinking of the first jhana and daily thinking, there’s no distinct entity.
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You might want to actually read the EBT suttas, english + pali next to each other so you can clear up your misconceptions. You may have some wrong ideas because you’re relying on wrong English translations.
Even just studying MN 19 in english + pali is enough to clear up your confusion. Track vitakka very carefully there, and see what happens before the first jhana formula.
Also keep in mind the Chinese Agama parallel to MN 19. It’s identical to MN 19, but they completely omit the first jhana formula, and start right from second jhana. THINK about what that means.
I can’t see anything in MN19 except that akusala vitakka are removed. It doesn’t discuss how the phase shift into the first jhana affect happiness, rapture, and thinking.
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look at the change that happens with the two cowherd similes before first jhana, and the description of the ekodi samadhi before and after. Before, it doesn’t have passadhi. After, it has passadhi. Passadhi is passadhi-sambojjhanga, in particular the kaya-passadhi.
Nothing about the fundamental nature of vitakka has changed. Only the energetic intensity and frequency of it. If it did undergo a shift into something else, this is the time for the Buddha to explain it. He doesn’t. In the agama parallel, it’s even more explicit and unambiguous by completely removing the first jhana formula.
It’s only because you were indoctrinated with wrong ideas from Vism. and Ajahn Brahm that you have trouble reading and interpreting the EBT. You have to clear your mind, and read the EBT without bias and preconceived ideas and then the obvious will hit you.
This also matches actual experience. Second jhana energetically feels exactly like the simile in AN 5.28, like you’re completely suffused with water but you feel the powerful vibrations from your spine to your head bubbling in your tailbone from the spring feeding the lake. It has a feeling of continuous orgasmic full body bliss.
From second jhana, experiment with V&V, thinking and pondering, and then you will know from experience exactly just how much kusala and akusala ordinary thinking and evaluation you can do from that state without reducing the full power of the whole body orgasmic bliss.
Even from an arupa samadhi, where you can’t find your body at all or feel any mosquito bites and leg pain, you can do perfectly ordinary V&V thinking and evaluation.
@Frankk, you had my total rapt interest in what you were saying until I read the above line.
Now we have good advice turned into an arrow aimed at creating resentment. This is not helpful. What you said before that WAS helpful. Stop with the arrows.
I suggest we restrain ourselves from posting to this thread for 24 hours.
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Thank you for that explanation. It definitely answers my first question in describing what you see Jhana is not. As for the second, it is helpful to know what Jhana is not, but I still don’t understand how you see what Jhana is. I understand that it is hard to explain, so no problem. I appreciate the lengthy response you’ve given.
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That I spend my valuable time and energy trying to patiently explain important points on the jhana controversy should make it clear that my motive is to help correct misunderstandings, and not create resentment.
If you look at my full quote in context,
I was indoctrinated with the same wrong ideas on Jhana by Theravada, Vism., and Ajahn Brahm, and it took me years to sort it out. By ‘wrong’, what I mean is ideas that contradict what the EBT says.
‘wrong’ is a lot easier to comprehend than, “ideas promulgated by Vism. and late Theravada othodoxy that run counter to a straightforward ockham’s razor reading of the pali EBT texts.” It’s time to put some big boy and big girl pants on. That’s an american english expression that means, I’m not going to treat you guys like little babies. You should consider the full context and need for expediency in written communication, and not be so eager to be offended.
Mat has engaged in these discussion with me for years as well, and I deduced why he’s having trouble grokking these ideas, is because of mental blocks from preconceived notions.
Please note that the forum is a place for civil discussion. Different opinions are welcome. The aim of discussions is to present points of view and EBT based points to support that. This way each person is free to make up their own minds and explore it with regards to their interests or practice. It is NOT about convincing people about what is right and what is wrong. If this becomes the goal, illuminating discussions degenerate into arguements.
This thread has been temporarily closed to allow some time for reflection