SuttaCentral
I don’t believe there is any vinaya rule that stipulates that one must eat what is offered, regardless of what might have been implied by some in this thread.
I’m also sorry that you stating your preferences has caused you to defend yourself, and from a lot of whataboutism.
Thank you very much for your insights! The extent to which you compromise on alms food seems very reasonable.
What I see in SN 22.80 is an attitude of someone who has thoroughly considered the meaning of leaving the lay setting, and also a degree of urgency that has the mind inclined towards developing the gain of liberation.
Well, that argument could also apply to veganism. I’ve noticed that many vegan Buddhists seem to forget that many millions of animals, such as insects, will be intentionally killed in order to supply them with their preferred diet. Insects matter as much as pigs do in Buddhadhamma. Still, you said you didn’t want your beliefs to be debated so I’ll leave this here.
Livestock must be fed grown crops, often raised in worse condition than human vegetables with lots of pesticides because it’s for animals, which kills the insects to feed the animals and slaughters the animals too. Something to reflect on.
Mettā
Dear All,
The thread is temporarily set in slow mode, to allow for further time before posts are added. Please note that editing in slow mode is only possible after the pause time has passed. So, please put extra care before writing something publicly.
The topic of veganism has been addressed in multiple threads, already. Instead, the OP is about vegan-friendly monasteries in the Theravada tradition, preferably in Europe.
Please let’s keep on the topic. If needed, feel free to discuss other aspects in a different thread.
With Metta,
Ric
Hi Jonas,
I haven’t actually stayed there (Corona 
) but had planned to - muttodaya.org (in Germany). They seemed at least vegetarian friendly when I asked. From memory, they told me that mostly there is a variety of vegetarian food there, worst case there is just rice.
All the best!
I haven’t been to Plum Village, but I have been to Deer Park in San Diego, California which is a TNH affiliated monastery. Nice place, nice monks and nuns, but they do a lot of singing and some light dancing. Not my cup of tea to see that, but some might like that style as a skillful means, I guess.
Have you visited much of these monasteries?
Usually if there’s enough monks there, the food arrangements is buffet. Even if the monks goes out for alms around, the food they bring back are arranged to become buffet selection.
When it’s buffet, it’s easy to become vegan. Well, unless it’s alms food from a region which has no vegans at all. That almost everyone eats meat in that locality.
For not having other monks convert you to become meat eaters, just don’t convert them, they don’t convert you, have some negative peace. Or don’t need to bring it up. Most important is just how your teacher sees it. Doesn’t matter if your teacher is vegan or not (actually it is very rare to find a vegan teacher), most important is that he is ok with you being vegan and wouldn’t convert you. The other monks attitude etc is secondary and can be worked on.
One way is that if they come to you again and again to say Buddha ate meat etc, sometimes, all it takes for them to back off is to do the standard vegan reasonings with them. For example, the Buddha didn’t live in this era of human induced climate change and industrial farming. Loving kindness extends to animals in cage due to being slaughtered. I don’t have any appetite for meat reflecting on that.
Not everyone is exposed to these kinds of reasonings because the older monks may had ordained before the internet and some monks from Myanmar and Sri Lanka may have been a novice since they are a kid.
So their exposure to the internet maybe that the vegan reasonings has not reached to them yet. But it’s more important to do it in a manner which is not defensive. So non violent communication course is a good way to do it.
A lot of the ones who wishes to change your diet may just opt for negative peace of you don’t remind them that they are making their stomach a graveyard for animal corpses, they don’t try to convert you away from veganism.
I only speak of why I am a vegan when people asked me. I don’t do overt active conversion, just encouragement, in the right circumstances. Again if the situation is above, there’s a balance achieved, don’t rock the boat.
For smaller monasteries, where there is only 2 or 3 monks, just make known to them that you’re a vegan. The current monastery I am staying in, Brahmavihara, I told them I am vegan, the supporters who donate food are very happy to cater to me, to have majority of the food selection offered on the table to be vegan. We’re all Chinese here so, the offerings are on a round table with a turntable. The monastery kapiya buy the food for us, or our regular volunteer cook cook for us.
Whenever we got invited outside for lunch Dana, the kapiya would inform them that at least one monk is vegan and explain the difference between vegan and vegetarian. No eggs, no milk. Just 4 simple words.
Worse case, if the donor has every dish mixed with meat, just take some of the vegetables from the dishes. Or eat plain rice. The donors would be concerned, ask why and they know next time what to do.
As for alms rounds, since I am still under dependence and living with other monks who are not vegan, I am ok with accepting meat, but just don’t eat them. Accept the meat, come back to monastery, let them arrange into buffet form, take only vegan food.
I am still gauging if it’s socially acceptable for me to put a sticker “Vegan” on my bowl. Anyway, if you’re going for alms round on your own, can just take note of few vegan restaurants, go rotate between them, today here, the next day there etc. I haven’t actually done this before.
If there’s some unavoidable meat to be taken, like Sunday market pindacara with Sasanarakkha Buddhist Sanctuary, I take a combination of the soup and noodles. Some put the meat with the noodle plastic bag, some put the meat with the soup. Not both. So I mix and match. The meat I had to take from the buffet, can just thrown into the forest and let the wild boar or cats to eat. Or throw into the pond for the fishes.
The more tricky part is for some monastery where they have the culture of offering extra food for monks who are in the middle of eating after we take our food.
Because of a vinaya rule that says if one rejects a staple food (meat falls into this), one cannot accept other food offerings.
So if you wish to have the delicious vegan ice cream which you know is coming, can just remember to accept the meat coming first, and put it aside, don’t need to eat them. Then can get the vegan food which is offered later.
The part I am still getting used to is to help take meat for other monastics who are on pindacara break. Some may just say whatever, but have an extra condition, but cannot be vegan food. So I had him specify what meat he wishes for when I help him to take, or else anything for me means I give him the same that I have. Healthy vegan selection.
I would prefer to just take total vegan food for them, but since they do cater for me, by bringing me only vegan food, I think I do owe them at least they curtosy
OP, you need to keep in mind that it’s unusual to only ever live in one monastery for ones entire monastic life. So finding a monastery to ordain at that is vegan is one issue. Living ones entire monastic life in such places is another.
As well, keep in mind that monasteries change. Abbots change. So a monastery that is vegan one year may not be the next.
Finding a good place to live is very, very difficult. Adding diet requirements is going to drastically limit options.
That said, if you are willing to eat things as long as you don’t see chunks of meat or obvious dairy, then most places will probably be ok. Living in Asia would actually be easier than living in Europe.
In many locations in Asia you would have to add three more words: “No fish sauce.” That’s a tricky one. A dish seemingly containing only plant matter could be seasoned with fish sauce which is almost a staple in many Southeast Asian cuisines. To someone who is accustomed to thinking of vegetarianism and veganism in the context of “meat,” “eggs,” or “dairy” it might not even cross their minds that a liquid substance seemingly bearing no resemblance to any of the aforementioned would be incompatible with a vegetarian or vegan diet.
Though it’s quite a distance from Germany, the Forest Hermitage, Ajahn Khemadhammo’s monastery in Warwickshire, has always been strictly vegetarian.
Thank you for your sharing your experience and insight. As always with morality in everyday matters, the devil‘s in the details. I‘m glad you‘re managing so well!
For what it‘s worth, whether or not it is socially acceptable, I‘ve come to the perception that stickers as signals to others are pointless because non-vegans usually don‘t notice or don‘t care. I‘ve found that telling people in a non-confrontational manner (as you already do) usually does the trick. That‘s how I scored a job as vegan housekeeper and chef at an office whose staff is omnivorous.
I haven‘t been to many monasteries yet, as time and money are in short supply, but am slowly working my way through the directories.
I‘ve just exchanged mails with them. They don‘t have much in the way of vegan food, but worst case they always have plain rice, plus probably some fruit, so I‘ll visit for a few days in spring and see what they‘re like.
@Snowbird
That‘s an aspect I hadn‘t considered before, thank you. I‘ll keep it in mind as I get to know monasteries and talk to the bhikkhus there. Having a Plan B (as in, another monastery to move to if things go pear shaped) would be a good idea.
Recently, I‘ve met a German Gelugpa monk who stressed the difficulty of finding a place that is psychologically healthy, confirming what I had suspected all along. So I‘m not dead set on ordaining; if there‘s no place that‘s generally sane, vegan friendly and conducive to practice, I‘ll keep working towards a minimalist lay life with as much practice as I can cram in.
You‘re right, Asia would probably be easier in terms of food. However, I‘d have to get there by land as I‘ve made a commitment to not fly as long as there is no reasonably climate friendly jet fuel. Quite a road trip if you‘re still allowed to handle money, don‘t know if it‘s doable once ordained.
@Dhammanando
The UK generally seems to have a thriving monastic culture, much more so than mainland Europe. Maybe I should save up for a longer stay and visit some of the places there. In any case, I‘ll check out Ajahn Khemadhammo. Thank you for the suggestion!
Yeah, that condition alone is very hard to meet. And I can think of a couple of monasteries that are vegan or vegan friendly that barely meet the generally sane qualification.
Right. The more conditions you have, the less likely the project will be successful. What about if you commit a sanghadisesa and have to get to Asia to find a quorum of monks to help you get out of it?
Have you thought about the fact that if you don’t get out of samsara, then because of your good merit in this life you may be reborn as a very wealthy person in your next life? Because we know that the wealthier you are the worse impact you have on the planet. Wouldn’t doing whatever necessary to get out of samsara be the best thing for the planet.
Sorry if that’s off topic. I do sincerely wish you to have the chance to ordain.
@jonas I don’t have any advice for you. I never had any intention of becoming a bhikkhu. Among the several significant reasons is the one you are discussing. I wish you the best.
Good Luck
Not to fly… Would the heating cost in winter offset the carbon footprint of flying to Malaysia and travel around south east Asia on land for visa purposes? We don’t have super hot summer here, so it’s possible to get by without using air conditioning for cooling. And SBS has solar! Flying can be one off, where one can stay in South East Asia until one dies, but winter heating is every year! Maybe you can do the calculation, which is more green. And is it more green to travel by land to South east Asia compared to plane? Have to add in all the transport emission by land.
Perhaps it could be carbon friendly if the monastery have solar panels, but then there’s less sunlight in winter, so have to add in wind turbine? You want to sponsor to built them in the monastery of your choosing?
Some friendly advice I got from my seniors is that it’s quite ok to be vegan, but look at whether there’s some attachments to it which can prevent arahanthood. I replied that it’s possible for arahants to remain vegan out of habit and external circumstances and indeed it’s a good point that most vegans do have some attachments in order to maintain being a vegan until the diet becomes a habit.
In general, I don’t think it’s worth it to limit one’s range of motion and choices of teachers for the sake of the vows you made in order to be green. The dhamma is the priority. Although technically, it’s totally possible to remain in Germany or somewhere in Europe, have enough monks to form a quorum (five minimum) to ordain you without having to fly the monks in, (but then I dunno how many monks are there in Germany or Europe in total), and then stay in the same monastery until one dies of old age.
Just that one might be more recluse like, don’t fly around like ajahn brahm for teaching here and there, just be the local teacher, or not teach, just be a practitioner. Actually, Ajahn Brahm is one of the exceptions. Most monks might not even get a chance to fly around so much. I would imagine Thai, Myanmar and Sri Lanka monks maybe living in monasteries with so many monks that they can only afford to send the teachers overseas if needed.
I’m not sure if you can travel east of India by land; even Northeastern India is quite off-limits. I think it would be easier to find a cargo ship willing to take you to Port Klang in Malaysia, but that’s typically expensive (over $100 a day) and you have to make sure that Malaysian authorities will let you in.
You might as well consider the Buddha’s homeland. Many Indian Buddhists have a bent for social justice, but you find practitioners of all schools in the Buddhist pilgrimage sites, and vegetarianism is commonplace and often the default option (unlike Southeast Asian countries).
To reach India by land (or anywhere east of India, if you can make it) you’d need to travel through Turkey, Iran, and Pakistan. Despite their reputation in the West, all the travellers I’m aware of describe the people of these countries as fanatical extremists when it comes to hospitality and kindness. There are security issues in Pakistan though, and after crossing the Iranian border foreigners are escorted by armed guards (for free) until they leave the region of Balochistan. Not for the faint-hearted!
Sorry for the silence! I exceeded the maximum number of posts allowed to a new member and had to wait for a day.
No need to apologize, you raise some good points here.
Being inexperienced with monastic rules, I hadn‘t considered that the resolution of a sanghadisesa would have to take place in Asia. Could you expand a bit on that?
Unless I die very soon, by the time I do, the planet will likely be in such a deteriorated state that individual consumption is drastically limited by necessity. And unless this is somehow conducive to Dhamma practice, I hope not to be reborn here. Then again, I might be reborn in a deva realm, so who knows 
Gotta go off the information I have at the moment.
The question whether or not to compromise on ecological commitments for the sake of getting out of samsara comes down to a discussion of „do the ends justify the means“. Even among Ajahns signaling some ecological consciousness in their lectures, the answer usually seems to be yes. Experience tells me, though, that reserving judgement or going against a broad consensus is often necessary to preserve one‘s discernment. @NgXinZhao makes a good case (for a one-way trip). I‘ll have to think about this some more.
As you say that few monasteries even have a psychologically healthy communal life, it might be possible (veganism aside) that the best chance of getting out of samsara at this point could be dedicated lay practice. If it‘s not too much to ask, what‘s your perspective on this? Are you ordained?
@NgXinZhao
Oh, I see what you‘ve done there! As I don‘t use the heater and have to reckon with my poor mother not being dissuaded from visiting me by plane, the calculations would be different, but ultimately it‘s a numbers game. According to some rough calculations I‘m currently at about 3.5 tonnes of CO2 equivalent per year. A monastic lifestyle would at least halve that (getting me below the maximum permissible emissions for the first time, I might add). One trip by plane is in the 2.5 tonnes range, so it wouldn‘t actually take that long to „offset“. If my mom decides to visit, though, well… Something to think about at least.
I‘ve heard some good things about SBS. A monk I chatted with a bit liked it there a lot. Would you say that it has a healthy atmosphere and culture? Are there any ways of getting to know it better from afar, aside from watching lectures given by the teachers there?
As for attachment to veganism, I‘m sure there‘s some of it there but would put it in a similar category as attachment to not killing. Unless criticism of this attachment is coupled with a recognition of its mundane value (as it seems to be with your elders), criticizing attachment to veganism but not attachment to not killing seems hypocritical to me. And, as you point out, some attachment is needed to actually form a wholesome habit.
@Oscar
Even getting to India by land sounds more like a Vice documentary than a roadtrip! Thanks for your insight.