Thoughts think themselves. This is why we must practice being aware of our own reactivity towards them. Ridding yourself of certain thought patterns may prove difficult, but how you relate to them can change through progress in meditation. I enjoy the modular view of the mind because often the mind can seem like a bunch of apps on a phone … sometimes a notification pops up, and it may not be something you need but it came up anyways. What do you do? Say “damn phone,” close the notification and move on with your day.
3 Likes
HA. Love it.
Yep, it’s working your way backward, from the thought emerging in consciousness, to work backwards to see the causes for it’s arising, and then down to precursors of it’s arrival, then to stemming its origination. In my understanding, when you get there, you have uprooted the cause at it’s genesis… the end of the work for that specific thought/issue/construct.
As jerclarke has said, you identify the underlying hindrance, and then analyse it to see if the beliefs you have that are attached to the thought are real or fantasy.
eg
Questions can be anything to help dig down, and look inside - in in in
eg Why do I value ‘the stuff I have to do’ higher than meditation? Is this an excuse? what is it about meditation that agitates me?
Do I believe that time is only well used, if I’m doing ‘stuff’?What is ‘stuff’? Where did this belief come from? When did I first have it? what examples are there when I didn’t have it? Is it useful? Is it a true representation of what I believe now? Is it a habit of thinking? What would be more useful? What can I say to myself when this same thought /restless feeling comes up again, that will remind me of this fantasy thinking? etc etc etc. In this way the work of unravelling begins and progresses. Sometimes even untangling the most seemingly insignificant issue can result in deep insights.
I’ll just add a rider to this post. I do not have a good knowledge of the labels and specific methods that people talk about… ie the points above work, but they probably fall accross insight and calming meditation methods. There are many traditions of thought re meditation, some which focus much more on rigid methodology for each type of meditation, in training the mind. You have to find what works for you.
The above method was what worked for me… the more I had unravelled my own beliefs and thoughts, the more they disappeared, which allowed greater states of samadhi to develop.
What I love about Ajahn Brahms approach, is he looks at this like experimentation (I look at it like being a detective within your own mind). Be flexible, and courageous in exploring every facet of mind/emotional reactions… It is possible to have fun with it - but sometimes it is also challenging at it will challenge the most basic beliefs and perceptions you have of the world 
Have fun!
7 Likes
Last year our local group did a session of slow walking meditation in a graveyard. We got some strange looks from passers-by, possibly they thought we were the living dead.
3 Likes
Thanks RC, and I do appreciate your help regarding my practice. Especially like the analogy to computer apps. I find that most useful. But how do thoughts think themselves. Could you break that down?
Yes thank you. Now we are getting to the root of the problem. But when you say ‘origination’. …from whence do these thoughts originate? Is there a sutta regarding this origin? I will research it. Thanks to all for stimulating my brain
This is truly a valuable approach.
Yes indeed. I think these questions hit the mark. I will use them to dig deeper.
I am grateful for all of your positive energy as I continue to wrestle…LOL, okay maybe that isn’t the right analogy to describe a Buddhist’s approach. I will continue to appreciate and assuage my my excessive brain wave activity. 
Is that ‘better’? LOL w/METTA!
2 Likes
LOL I’ll try that! 
2 Likes
Thank you so much. I appreciate this type of discourse very much as well! The “thought process” is still a very much studied aspect of neuroscience. There are differing theories on how this process works but a very simple version—of a theory I like—is that decision-making is similar to a contest among different neuron clusters vying to have their “voice” heard. Eventually one action choice bubbles up as the winner. This process precedes our conscious grasping of it. There have been studies done on the brain wherein the researchers were able to guess the choice of the participant prior to the participant being aware they made that choice. This shows that sometimes our mental programming essentially produces similar results quite often in regard to certain stimuli. So, essentially if somebody worries a lot, it could—in theory—be that a particular cluster of neurons in their brain wins a particular battle more often than others.
To tie this in with Buddhism, one of the five hindrances is restlessness and remorse (uddhacca-kukkucca), sometimes referred to as restlessness and worry. Is it possible a person could be more impacted by certain hindrances more so than others? This could be loosely explained by modern neuroscience with the above example.
1 Like
This seems like a joke, but it’s serious. Personally, when I first started meditating for long periods, I noticed that there was a nearly 100% coincidence between restless thoughts and my eyes pointing down and to the left. Why they pointed down and to the left when I was thinking, I have no idea, but paying attention to that made a huge difference in reducing how long my mind would wander aimlessly.
I like it when guided meditations tell me to imagine my eyes are floating in pools of water, it gets me to relax my whole face, and it’s hard to stress out about thoughts when your face is that relaxed.
Asking How is my body right now? when distracted can be so effective, especially when combined with What part of my body can I relax further?
Relaxing your body gives you passaddhi, stillness, which is a precursor for samadhi, concentration 
I think that’s one of the key problems for most meditators. I struggled a lot with the time aspect when I was starting, and sometimes it still affects me, especially when I’ve bungled my routine and have something immediately after the meditation that I worry about (THE TIMER IS BROKEN, I WILL BE HERE FOREVER, GOODBYE FRIENDS I AM BECOMING A SKELETON NOW 
)
The best advice I got was from a guided meditation (maybe the one I linked above, or another by the same author) that started with encouragement along these lines:
Remind yourself that there is nowhere else you need to be, and nothing else you need to do.
You are giving yourself time to grow and learn, cherish and enjoy this precious gift.
It sounds cheesy, but it really works for me. The fact is, when we are meditating, we’re probably doing the hardest and most important thing that we’ll do today. There’s no reason to feel like it’s a waste of time.
Obviously your mileage may vary, but for me, reciting these lines once or twice during a meditation is enough to get me back on track (along with the more obvious but less effective reminder that stressing out about time makes your meditation a waste!)
2 Likes
Wow, I believe you have described the process in a way that makes sense. No doubt, I mean I think that it is a proven fact that certain ‘bundled’ neuronal-pathways are made stronger by repetition but honestly I need to do some research. But it does seem likely that this may be the genesis of our conditioning which establishes strong patterns before or during the formation of consciousness.
When I read this statement I immediately flashed back on my mother’s admitted anxiety and insecurity over my birth and subsequent childhood which very possibly became the origin of my built-in tendency to be ‘hindered’ by a subtly chronic sense of anxiety. Thanks! Now to get to work on reconstructing those pathways with meditation.
Not at all. As soon as I read that it made sense, and I even practiced controlling my eye movements with moderate success.
I meditate with my eyes closed, and have found that when I make a concentrated effort to look straight ahead-which is to say perpendicular to the ground-that I find the most peace. And indeed at some point when thoughts begin to edge in it seems that my eyes have moved off center.
Should I concentrate on my Third Eye? Oh wait…wrong system.
Oh dear, thanks for saying that. I am also a little paranoid about the time…like I am afraid I might accidentally meditate too long
Beg yer pardon but that is not only NOT cheesy, but eloquent indeed, and something I will commit to memory. 
Most Grateful for your suggestions. May you be free from suffering today and every day
3 Likes
Hi Rosie. Regarding dealing with the the voices you speak of, also called the internal dialogue, you may find the book mind illuminated by Culadasa helpful. He’s a neuroscientist and a long-time meditator who recently published a popular meditation book I find helpful on this topic. One of his lines is let it come, let it be, let it go. This has been really helpful for me recently.
Another meditation teacher said something like she realized success was not meditating without the voices but meditating without getting angry at the voices, or something like that. Seems like the voices are common for most meditators, at least at times. Hope this helps.
Jetta:-)
3 Likes
Hi, and thanks for the tip. Every little bit helps a lot.
1 Like
My approach has been to let the ‘voices’ come and go without reacting to whether they are there or not, and judging myself (self-critically) in the process. It takes time, patience and a good retreat setting to completely rid of the ‘voices’, but starting off in a home environment is essential. Its more what happens when we are focusing, in between the voices, which produces unification of mind or samadhi.
3 Likes
Ajahn Brahmavamso addresses the issue of calming/quieting the mind, among other things, directly here. I’ve found his approach to meditation to be very helpful for calming and quieting the mind and body in contrast to other approaches I’ve been taught. Buddhist Society of Western Australia Podcast - Introduction to Meditation Series - Part 1 of 4 | Ajahn Brahmavamso | Free Listening on Podbean App
with metta,
2 Likes
Thanks for starting a nice thread.
I’ve mostly left the world and society behind me, so these days I wander alone, mostly in mountainous terrain, with a few things in a bag. I sleep a few hours in a day and the rest of the time, I think about and try to come to terms with a lifetime of isolation, disease, ache and abandonment. I try to go the roots of resentment, antagonism and bitterness in my mind and purge them. Ailments wreck my mind and make each day hard to get through, but I try my best to keep breathing. I try not to forget that a virtuous mind that is rid of arrogance, conceit, falsity and deviousness is the bedrock which gives rise to samadhi and insight that results in liberation from the yoke of birth, disease and death. I see meditation as the means, not the end. That’s all…
5 Likes
Noble words from a true ascetic. A purpose driven life on the Eightfold path.
Could you also come to terms with the peace of mind that comes with cessation?
May each day find you a little more peace, and may you be free from suffering. /w/metta, my wandering monk/friend. 
4 Likes
I most definitely do not see myself as one. 
Sometimes the state of things seems natural and pleasant, but other times (and this happens more often than I’d like to admit), it feels like I’ve been driven out of the world, to live in the fringes. The ensuing distress is not an easy burden to carry, but slowly, it’s all receding…
If you mean the cessation of pollutants in the mind, then yes…
Likewise.
3 Likes
Then may I humbly ask…how do you see yourself?
1 Like
A question posed out of pure curiosity: As helpful as online resources such as Sutta Central are to discovering, studying, and putting the Dhamma into practice, the internet can drag one into society and the world in ways that are not entirely wholesome in terms of ridding oneself of arrogance, conceit, falsity, and deviousness. A number of books have reflected on the deleterious effects of the hyper-connected cyberworld, e.g.,
https://www.amazon.com/DoNotDisturb-Ghosted-Cell-Phone-Take/dp/0062797069?crid=MSE065PKUPOE&keywords=jedediah+bila+book&qid=1539441266&s=Books&sprefix=jede%2Caps%2C240&sr=1-1-fkmrnull&ref=sr_1_fkmrnull_1
In terms of achieving samadhi and insight in daily practice, how does one balance spending time at forums such as this one (which can have its beneficial effects), and minimizing contact with society and the world?
3 Likes
I am curious too!
2 Likes