Why are monks that eat only one meal a day overweight?

The Watercooler
21

I think the better related discussion would be how could Buddhist rules and community behavior be updated to keep monastics healthier.

I would suggest allowing three meals a day. I know the intermittent fasting people will jump on me, but I think it is healthier to spread your food out. Being able to eat later in the day would also stop bad workarounds like drinking chocolate, buttered tea, sweet fizzy drinks, etc.

Having community talks to provide food that is more appropriate for mostly non-sedantary people.

Providing exercise equipment like stationary bicycles, elliptical machines, etc. Perhaps even small gyms in the larger monasteries.

The increased community expenditures in these areas will lower medical costs in the long term.

These things will also help monastics stay healthier mentally as well as physically.

It will also keep the monastics alive longer, enabling them to talk, write, and otherwise serve the community longer.

Everyone wins.

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22

Or they could be trying to teach clueless people good manners. Which obviously isn’t working. Or really worth my time, I suppose.

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23

Lol. Funny indeed… I’m just reflecting on this passage again on MN 125.

… “In the same way, Prince Jayasena dwells in the midst of sensual pleasures, enjoying them, consumed by thoughts of them, burning with fever for them, and eagerly seeking more.

It’s simply impossible for him to know or see or realize what can only be known, seen, and realized by renunciation.
…

Good luck.

24

Perhaps they’re not spending endless time speculating about such things. Thinking a lot certainly burns a lot of calories.

On a more important note, let’s treat our sangha with respect and perhaps spend more time on our own practice.

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25

I’m just reflecting on this passage:

AN 4.65 Appearance

“Mendicants, these four people are found in the world. What four? There are those whose estimation of and confidence in others is based on appearance, on eloquence, on mortification, and on principle.

These are the four people found in the world.

Those who judge on appearance,
and those swayed by a voice,
are full of desire and greed;
those people just don’t understand.

Not knowing what’s inside,
nor seeing what’s outside,
the fool shut in on every side,
gets carried away by a voice.

Not knowing what’s inside,
but seeing what’s outside,
seeing the fruit outside,
they’re also carried away by a voice.

Understanding what’s inside,
and seeing what’s outside,
seeing without hindrances,
they don’t get carried away by a voice.”

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26

I think also they eat breakfast and some eat cheese and chocolate in the evening.

27

Haha…

The above sutta is about regular appearance. Without any references to senses restraint.

But the question is being fat due to indulgence in senses (such as tongue and body) such as eating too much. These are 2 different subjects.

This mean a person join a monkhood from thin, then the body grow become fat.

Like I said, ask the monk why they are fat. See how they response, then you can proceed with your path.

Btw, if one has reached and maintained sati/samadhi level for 24/7, it is impossible for the body to grow anymore because one has been freed from 5 senses. No desire to indulgence in 5 senses due to Sati and unification of mind.

But most people still under 5 senses influences/defilements. If you know what I meant, Good luck.

28

Calories in vs calories out.
This is why anyone gains weight.
An hour of exercise burn only 300 calories, but you can eat 300 calories in 30 seconds.
At our monastery we are fortunate to have anagarikas and kitchen stewards who supplement our very rich dāna with steamed vegetables etc and some regulars have noticed this is the kind of food we finish off.
We have the benefit of being able to serve ourselves. At some places I’ve stayed the lay supporters will put food in to the monastics bowls which means you wind up with more food in your bowl than you need, once the food is in your bowl you are much more likely to eat it.

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29

https://thethaiger.com/news/chiang-rai/should-monks-be-fit-pics-of-monks-in-gym-stir-online-anger

30

There may be a few kettlebells lurking in kutis at Dhammasara. Mine makes a great door stop. Intentions are kamma right? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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31

Just a comment:

Monastic life has greatly improved my overall health.

But it took me a long time to really think about food in ayurvedic terms.

According to ancient Indian texts, humankind is meant to eat rice and pulses.

Milk, meat, ghee, oil, white butter, sugar, etc, are “fancy foods”. These are the ones we should eat less of.

As long as you eat rice and dahl/beans, and curry in proper proportions, and finer foods less often, you will be fine. If not you need to see a specialist, I can’t help you.

This is primary school knowledge that is reflected in the vinaya, not anything special.

Unfortunately, Sri Lankan food in general is high FODMAP, so the diet itself may be working against people in some regions. Fasting itself shouldn’t cause gastritis…gastritis is a “see your GP” type thing as it may be a sign of something more serious.

The diet was plainer in general in the past.

Also, educated people didn’t sleep during the day.

There were (and are) various chores like foot travel, walking places, washing, getting wood and water, etc. And also using less furniture did and does improve flexibility. The point is to do a variety of things that require different motions.

Additionally, if you wear less clothes*, you burn calories heaps faster & get something called “brown fat”. This is easy to do as a monk/nun! Actually, 3 robes is a lot…Jesus wore two robes & said if someone takes your upper robe, give them your sanghati too!

The way people thought about “health” in the ancient world was more about not becoming “soft” by getting too reliant on creature comforts like beds, vehicles and furniture. So the Buddha gave us many, many ways to be healthy… as long as we don’t deliberately ignore them with modern hubris or customary excuses. That is the purpose of the dhutangas, too: to live a simple and healthy life. It’s not even compulsory in Buddhism to lie down if you don’t want to, which is definitely an exercise in itself.

As a monastic, I feel grateful to be closer to the languages and cultures of Indian and ayurvedic medical knowledge. I am grateful to Buddhism and the Buddha for keeping me healthy (as well as to my GP and physio). :pray: A lot of the things my physiotherapist tells me about joint health are already in Buddhism, for example.

I think it is wrong for people to get the impression that monastic life is inherently unhealthy. Celibacy and intermittant fasting are two of the best things you can possibly do for yourself. Those and staying away from the computer. All things I can truly recommend & that monastic life has given me.

*to a point. Beyond that point is only hypothermia.

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32

One Theravada monk told me that Vinaya is designed to make you unhealthy so that you would not cling to your body. He was prescribed to do some sort of physiotherapy but believed that those exercise were against Vinaya rules.

34

If it was up to me I would let monastics spread their calories out over the course of day and I would let them workout. The monastics would be healthier, be around longer, and the medical bills for the community would be smaller. It would also add to their happiness. They have given up so much.

35

Time for a Theravada version of Shaolin Kung Fu?

36

This opinion would seem to be contradicted by the Buddha in the Bhaddali Sutta at MN65.

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37

Do any examples come to mind?

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38

To give some context: my physio is a disciple of Sarah Key and used to work in hospital rehab.

I am quoting ideas from Sarah Key’s work rather freely (as I am also a devotee).

Her concept is that it is the less frequently used actions of joints which are the first to be sacrificed by disuse. This includes modernity-induced disuse. So to stay flexible, it’s good to make a point of exercising the less frequent motions. Some examples might be the movement from sitting or sleeping on the floor to standing: even if it’s only done a few times a day, it all adds up to preserve flexibility.

Additionally, sleeping on a harder surface can also help preserve the smaller movements of the spine, etc. While this is obviously a bit individual, many people do find long term improvement for back pain with a firmer sleeping surface. One theory is that a softer mattress restricts movement during the night.

Moving things in general will allow fluid to keep moving through joints and spinal discs and keep them lubricated.

This is probably a bit more obvious for people who have observed eight precepts in a traditional manner in relation to beds. Some people say it takes about a month to truly get used to a low, hard surface- it mightn’t feel great straight away & in cold climates there will be insulative trade-offs (although the futon seems to work for Japan?)

In our local context, we have to walk for alms (and other things, which could include “roadside shopping” the street waste): it’s not possible to be fully sedentary. All of the physios seem to be into walking for back pain these days. Again, the benefits of walking might have been more obvious in the social conditions of the earlier period or in a village context.

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39

Thanks, interesting to know.

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40

Just a brief look at math:

An adult male who does mainly sitting work needs around 2000 to 2300 calories a day to keep his weight.

The calorie difference needed to gain or lose 1kg is around 7000 calories.

To eat these 2300 kcals in one meal means eating a huge meal, like going in to Burger King and ordering two full Whopper meals.

Usually, even big guys feel stuffed at around 1500kcals per meal.

Under these circumstances it surprises me that monks are even able to keep their weight on.

So whatever the heavily overweight monks do, they do something. They must have constant substantial intake of calories outside their main meal.

41

Yes, provided the Metabolic rate is normal.

Metabolic rate can vary considerably with factors such as age, sex, genetics, stress levels plus the effect of the overall activity during the day plus conditions affecting metabolism such as diabetes, thyroid disease etc.

Its not just the calorie intake.

Yes. They are probably older, stress free male monks who spend much of their time in jhana… :star_struck: :grin:

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