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5 points for admonishment

Hey folks,

We had another sutta class last night, here at Newbury. Of two suttas, one was the Bahuvedanīya Sutta . In our discussion of right speech the topic of admonishment came up and one of our monks mentioned the 5 points to observe when admonishing another monk. Embarrassingly none of us could remember exactly what they were, though having a mind of metta is the fifth. Can anyone tell me where these 5 points are listed in the pali?

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Not to be confused with these five points.

Bhante, I’m not sure if it’s what you’re looking for, but it reminds me of a section of the Kakacūpama Sutta (MN21):

Mendicants, there are these five ways in which others might criticize you. Their speech may be timely or untimely, true or false, gentle or harsh, beneficial or harmful, from a heart of love or from secret hate.

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ven @Jhanarato
and somewhat the flip side to what @Christopher suggested, there’s AN 5.198:

“Mendicants, speech that has five factors is well spoken, not poorly spoken. It’s blameless and is not criticized by sensible people. What five? It is speech that is timely, true, gentle, beneficial, and loving. Speech with these five factors is well spoken, not poorly spoken. It’s blameless and is not criticized by sensible people.”

But I think there is also something specific in a vinaya text specific to admonishing another monk but I don’t know how the Vinaya references work or how to search for it

P.S. I also found this but I don’t know how to find this part of the vinaya on SC or to reference it (can someone tell me please?)

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Perhaps this:

How to admonish another skillfully
"O bhikkhus, a bhikkhu who desires to admonish another should do so after investigating five conditions in himself and after establishing five other conditions in himself. What are the five conditions which he should investigate in himself?

[1] "Am I one who practices purity in bodily action, flawless and untainted…?

[2] "Am I one who practices purity in speech, flawless and untainted…?

[3] "Is the heart of goodwill, free from malice, established in me towards fellow-farers in the holy life…?

[4] "Am I or am I not one who has heard much, who bears in mind what he has heard, who stores up what he has heard? Those teachings which are good alike in their beginning, middle, and ending, proclaiming perfectly the spirit and the letter of the utterly purified holy life — have such teachings been much heard by me, borne in mind, practiced in speech, pondered in the heart and rightly penetrated by insight…?

[5] "Are the Patimokkhas [rules of conduct for monks and nuns] in full thoroughly learned by heart, well-analyzed with thorough knowledge of their meanings, clearly divided sutta by sutta and known in minute detail by me…?

"These five conditions must be investigated in himself.

"And what other five conditions must be established in himself?

[1] "Do I speak at the right time, or not?

[2] "Do I speak of facts, or not?

[3] "Do I speak gently or harshly?

[4] "Do I speak profitable words or not?

[5] "Do I speak with a kindly heart, or inwardly malicious?

“O bhikkhus, these five conditions are to be investigated in himself and the latter five established in himself by a bhikkhu who desires to admonish another.”

— AN V (From The Patimokkha, Ñanamoli Thera, trans.) - Samma Vaca ATI

:anjal:

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Ah, here’s the sutta:

There Sāriputta addressed the mendicants: “Reverends, a mendicant who wants to accuse another should first establish five things in themselves.
What five? I will speak at the right time, not at the wrong time. I will speak truthfully, not falsely. I will speak gently, not harshly. I will speak beneficially, not harmfully. I will speak lovingly, not from secret hate. A mendicant who wants to accuse another should first establish these five things in themselves… - AN 5.167

:anjal:

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I think that’s the one, @Polarbear. Thanks for your help.

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