According to EBTs what is the result of practicing four immeasurable?

By practicing Four
immeasurable leads
to what kind of state ?

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Its said to lead to the immaterial planes (don’t have the sutta right now). This method of expansion (mahaggatta) might explain a method of reaching the arupa jhana bypassing the rupa jhana.

with metta

So, do we have to practice it ?
Does it help to attain liberation ?
Why it was introduced by the Buddha ?

We don’t have to. But it helps with the 5 hindrances- especially anger. It is the underlying basis of the precepts and generosity, without which there would be no stream entry. So it depends how nice a person you are to begin with. On its own it doesn’t lead to liberation as it is a samatha (tranquillity) practice, but it can be combined with vipassana practices.

Yes. But not on its own. There is a sutta where the Buddha in a previous birth had practiced it for many years and became maha brahma etc, but wasn’t liberated.

Because it is helpful, wholesome (kusala) and beneficial for the many, even if they do not attain enlightenment purely from it.

with metta

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Another question if
you don’t mind , there
is in the suttas mentioned
that if a person attained
Liberation , they will achieved
the 4 immeasurable
at the same time ? Or not ?

Thank you in advance .

I haven’t come across this. They won’t necessarily achieve the pinnacle of the four immeasurables as that will be immaterial jhana - not all arahanths have immaterial jhana. However arahanths will be very wholesome individuals and is likely to have many of the qualities of the four immeasurables to a great degre.

with metta

Are you saying that Metta, etc. practice leads to the four attainments (later on mistakenly called arupa-jhanas)?
When I did a Metta retreat with Banthe Sujato he indicated that Metta can lead into Jhanas (the Buddha Jhanas).

Can you clarify jhāna and Buddha jhāna ?

Brahama Vihara Sutta.

Mettam Sutta

Hi mat ,
I just read SA743 and SN 46.54 ,

Only the last 3, which is ,
compassion , joy , equanimity
leads to 3 arupa jhāna.
Not including neither perception
Nor non perception .
Loving kindness leads to
one of the 4 classes of
rūpa jhāna .
(subdivided to 16)

Metta .

I like to call the four Jhanas found in the eightfold path and the various descriptions of the Buddha awakening night, the Buddha Jhanas.
I ignore the others in particular the so called arupa-jhanas (late terminology) which are usually called the four attainments.

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There are couple of sutta-s in the Bojjhanga Samyutta which line-up the Brahma-vihara-s with the arupa-ayatana-s (s/t called jhana-s 5-8).

In SN 46.54 it says loving kindness leads to “the deliverance of the beautiful”. Is that what you are taking to mean the 4th jhāna? If so, is that generally accepted? Do we have any references about that to confirm that?

What does SA say these lead to? Same? Or a different term for this one?

Also I find this passage strange:

‘May I dwell perceiving the repulsive in the unrepulsive,’ he dwells perceiving the repulsive therein. If he wishes: ‘May I dwell perceiving the unrepulsive in the repulsive,’ he dwells perceiving the unrepulsive therein.

If something is by definition unrepulsive, then how do you preceive the repulsive in it? Is this by using the imagination to perceive something which is in fact not there, not real? And what has this got to do with loving kindness?

The Brahmaviharas can lead to rebirth in the brahma world or all the way to full enlightenment depending on the mode of practice (by themselves or combined with the enlightenment factors). From Ven. Bodhi’s note citing the Cmy. to SN 46.54:

This conjunction of the enlightenment factors with the four divine abodes is unusual. On their own momentum the divine abodes lead to rebirth in the brahma world rather than to Nibbana (see MN II 82,24-27, II 207-8, AN II 128-29). When integrated into the structure of the Buddha’s path, however, they can be used to generate concentration of sufficient strength to serve as a basis for insight, which in turn brings enlightenment. A striking instance is at MN I 351,18-352,2. Spk: The monk develops the three jhanas based on lovingkindness, then takes this as a basis for developing insight and attains arahantship. The enlightenment factors are developed by insight and the path.

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Is there any evidence in the EBTs to back up that interpretation?

You are correct!

with metta

I do not see how your statement can be logically correct. Since:

Are you saying that these formless attainments are in the form realm, not the formless realm?!

You may also find some of the comments from the following thread from a while ago relevant to your reflection. :slight_smile:

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It was the part where you said:

You seem to be saying the state achieved from mettā has to be in the form realm because it is a brahmavihāra. But how can that logic work if the state achieved from the other brahmavihāras are formless?

You do realise you are totally contradicting youself right? And that therefore the basis of logic for backing up your interpretation of loving kindness being 4th jhāna is meaningless. That’s not to say the conclusion is wrong (I don’t know either way) - but your reasoning is clearly wrong. You do see that, right?