Adding footnotes to SuttaCentral

Seven years ago I wrote an incendiary post explaining why SuttaCentral doesn’t have footnotes.

Time passes, and now I am thinking of undertaking a plan to add notes over the next year or so. Let me explain what has changed about my thinking and why, and what has stayed the same.

Firstly let me get the least interesting detail out of the way. In the former post I pointed out that footnotes are not properly supported in HTML, which means there is no simple and consistent way of presenting them. This is still true, but we no longer are constrained by HTML. Our texts are in our own Bilara format, which means the texts and markup are completely separated. Bilara has first-class support for notes, so we can now not only make notes per segment, but in principle, can make as many different sets of notes as we like, and include them or leave them out of the text as desired.

  • The former constraint about HTML markup does, however, still apply to legacy texts—i.e. any translations, such as those of Ven Bodhi, which were formerly published elsewhere. We will never support notes for such texts.

Notes are already available for Snp and Ud on the web, which you can see here. In addition, our upcoming Publications project (about which more news very soon) supports footnotes in plain HTML, EPUB, and PDF. Here’s an example.

The upshot of this is that technical support for footnotes now exists. How are we to use it?

In the published notes for Snp, the notes mainly comment on the translation choices. It is an especially difficult text and the choices by different translators often vary considerably.

The most important thing for me, however, is to make the texts available for the 99%, not just for those who want to study the Pali. And for this, a set of notes for general readers is warranted.

I’ve already made a start on this as a test case, and you can see it on DN 1 here.

  • :warning: Ignore the formatting of the notes, we are rebuilding that. You can make the notes less intrusive by enabling “Tooltip on asterisk” in the “Views” panel.

Let me explain what I am trying to do here.

First of all, what is a note?

  • A note is a short piece of information that explains, clarifies, or adds context to a passage.
  • A note is generally self-contained. You glance at it, learn what you need, and move on.

There are exceptions to that: a note may link to elsewhere in the Suttas or refer to the work of others. But these are kept minimal. And when there is a reference, it is explained in the note so that it is not necessary to look it up in order to understand the issue.

  • :negative_squared_cross_mark: Don’t: See MN 23.
  • :white_check_mark: Do: See MN 23, where the same passage is framed in terms of the five aggregates.
  • :negative_squared_cross_mark: Don’t: See Bodhi’s note 23.
  • :white_check_mark: Do: In his note 23 on this passage, Bodhi shows that the variant reading añña must be correct.

For my project, I will focus on two kinds of notes.

  1. Explain the translation choices.
  2. Help the general reader.

What I would like is that if someone new to the suttas, with little in the way of background and context, should be trying to read a sutta, they see a note and go, “Hmm, nice.” Because text and note are separated, there seems to be no reason not to take a maximalist approach: explain what might need explaining. If you don’t like the notes, turn them off.

Non-goals include:

  • Summarizing the commentaries: refer to commentaries only if they are actually useful to clear up the text or reading.
  • Teaching the controversy: a note is not an essay and not all controversies are worth teaching.
  • Expounding special views: stick to things that are simple and straightforward. See above re “not an essay”.
  • Apologetics: it’s not my position to judge but to clarify.
  • Linguistics: only discuss the Pali if it is necessary to explain a translation choice.
  • Comparatives: checking the Chinese and other parallels for everything is out of scope: I have to make a limit somewhere, else it won’t get done.
  • Referencing the literature: this is not an academic project, and will generally not refer to articles and the like, again, except where they directly affect the translation.

All of these things have their place, but for my notes I’ll keep them at a minimum.

In my previous post I imagined a more expansive role for notes, with various contributors and multiple streams of different types of notes. And this is still something I look forward to at some point. With Bilara, there is no reason we can’t have multiple sets of notes from different perspectives, but we have to start somewhere.

Please check out the existing notes for Snp and DN 1 and let me know what you think. The project is in its initial stages, so I am still exploring options. :pray:

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Thanks so much Bhante! :pray:

The notes are clear and I believe many people will enjoy and benefit from them. :slightly_smiling_face:

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:partying_face: This is most welcome news, Bhante! And that PDF screenshot is titillating!

I would vote for keeping these two kinds of notes separate in the underlying data if you aren’t already. Even if they get turned off and on together in the current UI, it would enable what I always wanted in Bhikkhu Bodhi’s work: a toggle to keep the general notes but hide the more technical ones.

Cheers!

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Thank you, Bhante. I found the notes for DN 1 quite helpful. I felt they decreased my distance from the text. I’m very excited about this project.

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I’ve thought of that, but I’m not sure if the overhead is worth the convenience. It’s not difficult to implement, I guess the writing side is the more tricky, toggling between the two. I’m just not sure that there are enough technical notes to make it worthwhile.

Apart from Snp, there just aren’t that many technical notes.

Taking DN as an example, I made 130 general notes on DN 1. In the whole of DN there are about 500 unedited notes. So that’s about 350 apart from DN 1, so about ten per sutta. Those ten are mostly technical, although some cases are borderline. So compared to the general notes in DN 1, less than 10% of the notes are technical.

Anyway, I’ll bear this in mind and proceed with DN. Let’s see how it looks as I go along.

Aww thanks Jim!

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Good! There is one little thing, however, that seems a bit weird: the asterisk is next to the subsequent line, rather than immediately after the full stop of the the line it belongs to. Should this be fixed? Can it be fixed?

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Apparently Discourse will not let me make a post consisting entirely of quotes from previous posts. It’s almost as if doing so would be considered passive-aggressive or snarky.

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Ah okay, if it stays at about that ratio than I agree: no need. :slight_smile: :pray: Cheers!

Yes, if someone does a Norman and writes extensive linguistic notes on every line (which I would love!) then that should definitely be separate.

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We now have live notes for the whole first chapter of dn.

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Hi Bhante,
Thanks for all the notes, they are great! But some of the longer notes I cannot read entirely (see screenshot) and because it is a tooltip I cannot scroll down. Maybe you are already aware of this, but just wanted to let you know.

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The issue can be avoided by selecting “Show as sidenotes”

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Thanks, yes we know. For now, WayChung’s solution will have to suffice, but the underlying problem is that the footnotes are implemented (by yours truly) in a very basic manner that breaks in certain cases. We do have an aim to replace this with something better!

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Hi Bhante!

I want to show appreciation and joy for the notes you’re adding! So far, in DN MN and Snp they are great and provide such interesting information and also stuff to look into ourselves if we want to know more. I also really appreciate the basic function of getting a short commentary from an experienced practitioner and translator which helps provide a valuable perspective on the material. They make for good discussion points and general reading for digesting a sutta in depth from various angles. Sādhu anumodanā! :pray:

Question: Will you be doing notes for all of SN and AN? I ask because they are obviously pretty long with lots of tiny discourses. Especially AN where the material is very scattered and broad. It would be a great contribution to the world though!

And also: how would the network of notes from various contributors work? In terms of determining who would contribute, where, and how the interface would function without being overwhelming in terms of graphics + information?

Mettā

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Yes, my plan is to:

  • Go through the texts from DN (finished!), MN (up to 100!), then SN and AN. I’ll then revise and expand my notes in KN.
  • Then I’ll go back and revise them all.
  • Then I’ll revise the introductions, as some things may be out of date.

It’ll take a while!

In terms of data, this is straightforward, they simply live in separate folders.

The beauty of this system is that the UI is then dependent on the application, so it can be done how you like. I envisage a system a bit similar to what we use now for references, where the user can “view all”, “view main”, or select an author. But that would be a long way in the future, if it ever happens.

Someone building their own application on SC can do that however they like.

So far I haven’t even seen a proposal for notes that is interesting.

Yes, I’m not sure how that will work, I’m looking forward to finding out.

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Certainly it’s not good if the interface breaks with footnotes greater than x size. At the same time, perhaps the reader would be better served with sutta specific introductions rather than very long notes.

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Yes, I’ve thought of doing this.

Currently we have:

  • collection introductions (full HTML, eg. can include lists and footnotes)
  • footnotes (markdown, basically just italics and few other styling details)
  • blurbs (plain text only)

We could add to that,

  • sutta introductions

These, like collection introductions, would contain full HTML. The could be anything from a simple paragraph to a lengthy essay. They can be optionally displayed per sutta.

I’m kind of thinking that it might be good to do this as I’m getting near the end of the footnotes. Basically, I don’t want to break my flow of work to do another tech thingy. And once it’s done, I’ll have a clearer idea of what’s what, and how the different parts should be used, if we decide to go that route.

At that point, I would go back over everything:

  • update and correct collection introductions
  • add individual sutta intros (not for everything of course, but where useful)
  • reduce footnotes

But yeah, that’s going to take a while … The more important thing is to keep going carefully over the translations and checking everything in detail. Today I finished notes for MN 100!

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Sadhu! :pray:

Not sure if this is the best thread, but there is a confusing typo in the MN notes at MN 38. It references a note at MN 36, but it should be MN 38 (not -6). It is the note to this passage:

Mendicants, when three things come together an embryo is conceived

Also, I noticed there is no note on a concluding statement to the discourse:

Mendicants, you should memorize this brief statement on freedom through the ending of craving. But the mendicant Sāti, the fisherman’s son, is caught in a vast net of craving, a tangle of craving.

MN 38 is probably one of the longest discourses in the MN, and yet it calls the teaching a “brief statement” :thinking:. Either the word for ‘brief statement’ means something else and our understanding should evolve, or there’s been obvious expansion, or this refers to a prior section within the sutta. Bhikkhu Bodhi translates as if it is memorizing the name of the discourse in brief as a stand-in for the full teaching. There has been some discussion of this issue by Alexander Wynne and Analayo in the past.

Thanks, I’ll look into these fixes.

Yes, it deserves a note. I think it is a textual confusion, the “brief statement” is, rather, the short passage in the previous sutta on the ending of craving. Perhaps that originally found a place in MN 38 too, or perhaps text has been displaced.

Just noting that the mention of the “brief” passage is absent from the Chinese parallel, which supports the idea that it was copied over from the previous sutta. Also note that the exhortation to memorize a brief passage only occurs in one other sutta, MN 140, where it does indeed refer to the brief passage around which the long sutta is based.

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