Āgama-related Chinese translation questions

Rather than make a bazillion different threads for each and every question, I figured I would contain my inquiries to one as they come up.

This question relates to a larger question about the place of vipassanā in the EBTs (disclaimer, I know absolutely nothing about vipassanā).

Specifically, this is a question about the usage of 觀 (guān):[quote]1. to observe; to watch; to view; to see
2. to observe closely; to scrutinise; to investigate
3. to read; to peruse
4. to display; to show
5. to visit; to go sightseeing
6. to play; to enjoy
7. appearance; looks
8. sight; view; perspective
9. concept; outlook
10. A surname​.[/quote]In addition to these readings, the NTI Buddhist Chinese dictionary lists 觀 as being a frequent translations of vipaśyanā-vipassanā.

It appears in SA 176, in a termination formula that repeats several times, in which the Buddha seems to give meditational instructions.

The first context it comes up in is [quote]「為斷無常故,當隨修內身身觀住。[/quote]Ven Ānalayo gives this rendition: [quote]“For the sake of eradicating impermanent things, one should accordingly be established in contemplating the internal body as a body.[/quote]

The ending two characters (觀住) are clipped off in Ven Ānalayo’s translation, or they are accounted for elsewhere at the very least. 觀 has a variety of meanings, which in Buddhist discourse, can be limited down to these (based on the NTI dictionary): vipaśyanā, smṛti, or dṛṣṭi: insight, mindfulness, or it can refer to a particular “view”.

This is in addition to its standard meanings in Literary Chinese, as well as its generally reading, which is “to look [at]”.

住 (zhù) is the next character. This one has two main readings, which are not as related to each other as the various meanings of 觀 obviously are.

From going through the āgamāḥ on my own, it seems that the translators use it for “dwelling/abiding (pratiṣṭhita?)” and “cessation” chiefly. Some other usages are as follows:[quote]1. to live
2. to reside
3. to attach
4. to stop
5. to retain/to hold back
6. to reserve/preserve
7. to maintain[/quote] So knowing the semantic values of these two units we can look at the repeated terminatio formula in SA 176 to end in something like “looking at/viewing/insightful of” followed either by “dwelling in” or “ceasing/cessation”. This would be a very strange place for verb-stacking, so only one of these two is probably functioning as a verb (if either one is) and that necessitates the other character being a noun or adjective.

Looking at 觀住 a few possibilities come to mind (keep in mind we are talking about 修內身身 (cultivation of internal body [as?] body, kāye kāyānupassī, which Ven @sujato renders as “observing an aspect of the body”):

Of these, given that when 住 is employed in an āgama, the sutta-parallel usually has the cessation of something, it seems tentatively sensible to me that the ending of the formula is something like “observing cessation” or “observing its cessation”, or “observing attachment” or “observing [your?] attachment [to that]”.

Ven Ānalayo does not seem to include these characters in his English rendering of the āgama, which could be for any reason. I think that the English verb “contemplate” sort of combines the Chinese 修 (xiū, or bhāvanā) and 觀 “observing/observation”, and this could be why Ven Ānalayo felt the meaning of 觀 was accounted for in the English rendering.

Here are the rest of the times that the terminatio formula occurs, contextualized, I have chosen “insightful [of it’s] cessation” for the purposes of this list, but the above possibilities still stand:[quote]何等法無常?謂色無常,為斷彼故,當隨修內身身觀住。
Which ranks [of] dharmāḥ lack constancy? [One] calls substance [i.e. rūpa] lacking [in] constancy, for severing [from] that [the] purpose [of this is], act [to] pursue cultivation [of the] internal body [as] bodily[,] insightful [of it’s] cessation.
(Ven Ānalayo:)What things are impermanent? That is, bodily form is impermanent. For the sake of eradicating that [thing], one should accordingly be established in contemplating the internal body as a body.[/quote]

[quote]如是受、想、行、識無常,為斷彼故,當隨修內身身觀住。」
Thus so sensation, cognition, formation, consciousness lacks constancy, for severing [from] that [the] purpose [of this is], act [to] pursue cultivation [of the] internal body [as] bodily[,] insightful [of it’s] cessation."
In the same way feeling … perception … formations … consciousness is impermanent. For the sake of eradicating that [thing], one should accordingly be established in contemplating the internal body as a body.”[/quote]

[quote]如無常,如是過去色無常,未來色、現在色、過去未來色、
Thus [all of these things] lack constancy, thus so finished past [substance, sensation, cognition, formation & consciousness] lack constancy, not-yet arisen substance [et al.], present extant substance [et al.] , finished past [and] not-yet arisen substance [et al.],
Just as “[bodily form] is impermanent”, in the same way “past bodily form is impermanent”, “future bodily form [is impermanent]”, “present bodily form [is impermanent]”, “past and future bodily form [is impermanent]”,

過去現在色、未來現在色、過去未來現在色無常,斷彼故,當隨修身身觀住。
finished past [and] presently extant substance, not-yet arisen [and] presently extant substance, finished past [and] presently extant substance lacks constancy, severing [from] that [the] purpose [of this is], act [to] pursue cultivation [of the] body [as] bodily[,] insightful [of it’s] cessation.
“past and present bodily form [is impermanent]”, “future and present bodily form [is impermanent]”, “past, future, and present bodily form is impermanent. For the sake of eradicating that [thing], one should accordingly be established in contemplating the internal body as a body.[/quote]

[quote]如隨修內身身觀住八種,如是外身身觀、內外身身觀、
Thusly act [to] pursue cultivation [of the] internal body [as] bodily[,] insightful [of it’s] cessation [in these] eight ways, thus so [of the] external body [do/act/perform/make] body insight, [of the] internal body [do/act/perform/make] body insight,
Just as “[one should] accordingly be established in contemplating the internal body as a body” in eight modes, in the same way “[one should] accordingly be established in contemplating the external body as a body”,[/quote]This list is getting a little bit unnecessarily long, so I will finish with an account of the closing formula : [quote]內受受觀、外受受觀、內外受受觀、內心心觀、.
[Of the] internal sensations [do/act/perform/make] sensation insight, [of the] external sensations [do/act/perform/make] sensation insight, [of the] internal [and] external sensations [do/act/perform/make] sensation insight, [of the] internal mind [i.e. citta] [do/act/perform/make] mind insight,
“in contemplating internal feelings as feelings”, “in contemplating external feelings as feelings”, “in contemplating internal and external feelings as feelings”,[/quote]

This formula appears four times. Four different nouns in total occupy the place after 外 or 內 (which, respectively, mean “internal” and “external”), namely, 身 (body), 受 (feelings, sensations), 心 (mind), & 法 (dharmāḥ, internal and external, very odd). These all occur between 外/內 and 觀.

So there we have an account of the curious usage of 觀 in SA 176, as well as the various “types” (?) of 觀 listed (身觀, 受觀, 心觀, 法觀). What do you think of this? Is this at all similar to modern vipassanā (keeping in mind that I know absolutely nothing about vipassanā)?

PS: The closing of the āgama is characteristically phrased with excellent writing by the scribe. I say the scribe/translator, rather than the Buddha directly, because it is a bit contentious as to if material after the scribal formula 佛說此經已, or “Buddha’s words this sūtra [was] thereafter” is indeed “Buddhavacana” or is just “Buddhist teachings” rephrased. Anyways here it is: [quote]如斷無常義,修四念處;如是知義、
Thus severing [from] lack [of] constant falsity [or “artificiality”], cultivate [the] four remembrance bases [i.e. cattāro satipatthānāno]; thus so discern kleśāḥ,

[there is an edit here, inserting readings based on @James2997’s corrections concerning 義]

盡義、吐義、止義、捨義、滅義、沒義故,
End kleśāḥ, expel kleśāḥ, stop kleśāḥ, abandon falsity, end kleśāḥ’ cause [@James2997: “vanishing (of kilesa)”].

隨修四念處,亦如上說。
Pursue cultivation [of the] four remembrance (or “mindfulness”) bases, only thus [the] Bhagavān spoke*.

*concerning this last phrase, I assumed null-subject construction in the dependent clause, and misinterpreted 上 as to imply the word “如来” (rú lái), or “Tathāgata”. The correct reading of this is “also as above said”. It ambiguously marks the editorial postlude after the Buddhavacana as also being purported Buddhavacana all the same, however. [/quote]Ven Ānalayo does not include the ending of this āgama in his translation, probably because, I think it’s possible, that he does not believing the ending to be Buddhavacana, and believes it to be a scribal epilogue. This is a position shared by a few other studiers of āgamāḥ. I am not a professional, so I cannot say that Ven Ānalayo was wrong to not translate the ending as well, but I think that it is also possible that material after 佛說此經已 is also Buddhavacana, given the closing: 亦如上說, “only thus [did the] Bhagavān speak”, but again, I am not a professional.

[EDIT: @James2997:

The 四念處 (four remembrance/mindfulness bases?) at the end might line up with the four objects (?) of 觀 spoken of in the āgama, but that begs the question, if such was the case, why didn’t the āgama doesn’t just say something like 外受念 directly, but rather employs the differentiated language of 觀.

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I was taking a gander through the (eccentric?) Dharmapada called “Lzh Dhp T 210” on this site and I encountered this unusual feature of the language:[quote]非空非海中, 非入山石間,
無有地方所, 脫之不受死。
是務是吾作, 當作令致是,
人為此[跳-兆+參]擾, 履踐老死憂。
知此能自淨, 如是見生盡,
比丘厭魔兵, 從生死得度。[/quote]There are a couple of times in the text where that happens, where we encounter square brackets with some sort of linguistic algebra inside.

I figure this might be an instance of there being an eccentric historical character used that most computers cannot display, so there is some sort of shorthand to refer to it (maybe by listing its radicals?). The verse is pretty straightforwardly quintal, so it would make sense if the square brackets in the section I quoted replace a single character.

Or it might be that the manuscript is unclear and a few possibilities are being listed. Does anyone know?

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Can 故, as a noun in the plural, in Chinese, ever mean “happenings” or “instances”, or perhaps even “moments”?

Consider 彼如來自覺知,成等正覺,為人演說,開示顯發,謂緣生故,有老、病、死、憂、悲、惱、苦。

From the above, in the section 謂緣生故; 緣生 is pratītyasamutpāda, which is rendered into English as “dependent origination”. Looking at the Chinese, 緣, with its overtones of “fate”, “predestination”, but also “condition{edness}”, followed by 生, related to birth and genesis, I would hazard a guess to say that if one were to try to render the Chinese alone into English (i.e. if one were to try to translate this irrespective of an already extant and well-established Pāli tradition of English Dhamma translation), one might come up with something like “origination of fate”, “arising(s) of predestination”, or something like that.

And this makes sense. The goal of Buddhist practice can, at least in part, be sort-of described as attempting to escape from “fate” in a sense (“liberation from karma?”).

But in this specific instance, in 謂緣生故, is this a early proto-reference to “momentariness”?

@Coemgenu

About your question :

非空非海中, 非入山石間,
無有地方所, 脫之不受死。
是務是吾作, 當作令致是,
人為此[跳-兆+參]擾, 履踐老死憂。
知此能自淨, 如是見生盡,
比丘厭魔兵, 從生死得度。

Please refer to the bracket :
It is about different
dynasty translations .

[跳-兆+參]=躁
【宋】【元】【明】
Dynasty : song yuan ming

人為此[ 躁 ]擾, 履踐老死憂。

@Coemgenu

如是 , 知义 、
盡義、吐義、止義、
捨義、滅義、沒義故,
Every falsity, expel falsity, calm [i.e. śamatha used as a verb?] falsity, abandon falsity, end falsity['s] cause.

P/s :
Falsity is incorrect translations.

Thus so ,
it signify the

Comprehending (of kilesa)
Ending (of kilesa)
Expelling (of kilesa)
Stopping (of kilesa)
Abandoning (of kilesa)
Cessation (of kilesa)
Vanishing (of kilesa)

Thereof .

[quote=“James2997, post:6, topic:4790”]
[Quoting me rendering 盡義 as “every falsity”]

P/s :
Falsity is incorrect translations.

[…]

Comprehending (of kilesa)
[/quote]That makes so much more sense and is far less vague than what I could come up with.

[quote=“James2997, post:5, topic:4790”]
Please refer to the bracket :
It is about different
dynasty translations .
[/quote]Forgive me, but if I can ask clarification, do you mean that these different bracketed elements are manuscript variation from different successive dynasties’ transmissions of this text? I am very impressed that that would be included in the text itself. Usually to find out about manuscript variation in Pāli writings, one has to look up an independent scholarly article. It is very convenient that they are here, if I am understanding you correctly.

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@Coemgenu

Yes 。Actually ,
There are several versions .

大正藏以高麗版大藏經為底版。

【宋】宋本,A.D.1239,
【元】元本,A.D.1290,
【明】明本,A.D.1601,
【聖】正倉院聖語藏本
(天平寫經A.D.729-) 。Japan version

(Version notes and examples Explanation)

【三】 Song, Yuan, Ming editions
The ‘Three Editions’ of the Sung,
the Yuan and the Ming dynasties

【宋】 Song edition
The ‘Sung Edition’ A. D. 1239

【元】 Yuan edition
The ‘Yuan Edition’ A. D. 1290

【明】 Ming edition
The ‘Ming Edition’ A. D. 1601

【麗】 Koryŏ edition
The ‘Kao-Li Edition’ A. D. 1151
Korea version

【麗乙】 Koryŏ, reprint
Another print of the Kao-Li Edition

【聖】 Shōgozō collection
The Tempyoō Mss. [A. D. 729-] and
the Chinese Mss. of the Sui [A. D. 581-617] and Tang [A. D. 618-822] dynasties, belonging to the Imperial Treasure House Shōsō-in at Nara, specially called Shōgo-zōp

【聖乙】 Copy two, Shōgozō collection Another copy of the same

【宮】 Old Song edition
The Old Sung Edition [A. D. 1104-1148] belonging to the Library of the Imperial Household

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@Coemgenu

If you want you can refer
to link below
To view and check out the Chinese version dhammapada
tag with reference for the dynasty .
Also , with rectified words .

http://myweb.ncku.edu.tw/~lsn46/Tipitaka/Sutta/Khuddaka/Dhammapada/c-N-Dharmapada.htm

@Coemgenu

Hi ,
Actually ,
either one or
more of that dynasty tipitaka
showing on side , should be
the Correct translations .

人為此[跳-兆+參]擾,
履踐老死憂。

According to their times ,
the word 慘right hand side
“參”,is equate to “喿”。

(Another Example Is ,
“躁” ,they will write “輕” .)

[跳-兆+(絫-糸+尒)]
[跳-兆+參]擾 ,
[跳 minus 兆 plus 参]擾 =

Since “參” = “喿”。

[足参 = 躁]擾

Therefore is “躁擾” .

Of course , other Sutta usage may
Differ according to the text .

Better late than never, but if it’s still relevant, 住 stands for viharati. I hadn’t seen the NTI dictionary before, so thanks for that reference. Nevertheless, the Digital Dictionary Of Buddhism is the most reliable source for Buddhist Chinese. The reference there gives viharati right at the start.

Viharati is used in Pali as an auxilliary verb denoting in its broadest sense “extension”, i.e. staying, dwelling, remaining. (this explains the “verb stacking” you refer to.) It gains more specialized meanings in various contexts, and in meditation passages I often translate it as “meditates”. While it is often good to translate it, it need not always be translated.

觀 here probably stands for anupassanā rather than vipassanā. In the EBTs, vipassanā is used fairly rarely, and almost always in connection with samatha. In general meditation contexts such as this, it is far more likely to be anupassanā. The difference is that while vipassanā has a specific doctrinal sense of meditation for gaining the wisdom of discernment and insight, anupassanā is used more generally in the sense of “sustained observation”.

In the context we have here, we can describe it as vipassana meditation, as it involves the observing of impermanence, but it is unlikely that the original text actually contained the word vipassanā. Of course, this is uncertain, but these usages are pretty consistent throughout the Pali and Sanskritic texts. Whether the Chinese translator maintained this distinction is, of course, another matter.

The external “dhammas” refer to the observation of how the principles of the dhamma apply in people other than oneself. On a simple level, if you observe how anger makes people behave badly, for example. On a more subtle level it refers to the understanding of such matters by psychic powers.[quote=“Coemgenu, post:3, topic:4790”]
I figure this might be an instance of there being an eccentric historical character used that most computers cannot display, so there is some sort of shorthand to refer to it (maybe by listing its radicals?). The verse is pretty straightforwardly quintal, so it would make sense if the square brackets in the section I quoted replace a single character.
[/quote]

Yes, this is I think a variant reading, referring to alternative sources.

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@Coemgenu

何等法無常?謂色無常,為斷彼故,
當隨修內身身觀住。
What type of dhamma not permanent ,
That is , body is not permanent ,
and for the sake of severing it
( permanent view ) ,
One should practice accordingly
by abiding in Contemplating
the internal body as body .

P/s : I am not expert in
any language or dhamma fields .
Just hope by doing so one
will learn something.

@Coemgenu

隨修四念處,亦如上說。
(Pursue cultivation [of the] four remembrance (or “mindfulness”) bases, only thus [the] Bhagavān spoke.)

My translations :

practicing the 4 bases
of mindfulness accordingly ,
also (same) as above said .

P/s : No Bhagavān word in the sentence.

[quote=“James2997, post:13, topic:4790”]
P/s : No Bhagavān word in the sentence.
[/quote]Indeed, its a pretty bad mistake, looking back at it, I must have seen the 如上, not been familiar enough with 上, read it as “superior” or “higher”, and wondered who the “thus superior one” was and figured it referred to the Tathāgata as some kind of historical variation on 如来.

[quote=“sujato, post:11, topic:4790”]
Nevertheless, the Digital Dictionary Of Buddhism is the most reliable source for Buddhist Chinese.
[/quote]Do you know how one goes about accessing this dictionary? I’ve known about it for a while, but whenever I try to use it, it says I don’t have authorization.

Yeah, as I read that, I realized that kāyānupassī is probably a joining of kāya+anupassī (creating a lengthened “ā”; à la Aryāvalokiteśvara).

just type ‘guest’.

indeed, yes.

One thing to remember is that vipassana is never of something. There’s no such thing as vipassana of impermanence, or vipassana of the body; it’s just vipassana. The specialized contemplations use anupassana or something else.

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Perhaps I misunderstand your meaning, but it seems to me that vipassanā is sometimes of something, particularly when it occurs as part of a compound.

Take, for example, the -dhammavipassanā part of anupada-dhammavipassanā (MN111) and adhipaññā-dhammavipassanā (AN9.4). This is treated in the commentaries as either a chaṭṭhī- or a sattamī-tappurisa, giving us either “clear-seeing of dhammas” or “clear-seeing with respect to dhammas”. I don’t think it could be plausibly treated as much else.

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My apologies, you’re quite right, I overlooked these cases. Still, these remain as generic meditation terms, not a particular meditation subject such as kāyānupassanā.

Note to self: Always start every sentence with “usually”. Oops! Usually start every sentence with “usually”.

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