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(another)Translation request - Two Agama parallels to Nibbedhika Sutta AN 6.63 (Cetana/Kamma)

kamma
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#1

Hi,
Here’s another translation request for the portion of the Nibbedhika sutta which talks about Kamma;
Can I push your kindness a bit, @cdpatton, and request a translation please?

This is the sutta which has the equation Cetana = Kamma; it also talks about kinds of Kamma, cause and vipaka.

The two chinese parallels, from what I gather of google translate, are not exactly same as Pali but are close. They seem to talk about Kanha, Sukka, Kanhasukka kamma which is not found in this Sutta in Pali (but is found elsewhere).

What does the MA parallel MA 111 and the other independent translation T 57 have to say on Kamma?

Pali sutta:

Parallel 1:

Parallel 2:

With thanks and Metta,
Ravi


#2

Hi,

Yes, I would say MA 111 is essentially the same as the Pali in that it doesn’t contradict it, but the presentation is a little different. T57 is an early An Shigao translation that isn’t easy to translate because his vocabulary is different than later texts that I’m more familiar with.

MA 111’s section on karma reads:

「云何知業?謂有二業:思、已思業,是謂知業。

"How is karma known? There are two kinds of karma: karma of intentions and of past intention. This is called knowing karma.

云何知業所因生?謂更樂也。因更樂則便有業,是謂知業所因生。

"How is the cause of karma’s arising known? Contact.* Because of contact then there’s karma. This is called knowing the cause that gives rise to karma.

  • 更樂 literally means something like “to experience,” but it’s used in MA to translate sparśa.

云何知業有報?謂或有業黑、有黑報,或有業白、有白報,或有業黑白、黑白報,或有業不黑不白、無報,業業盡,是謂知業有報。

"How is the result of karma known? Some karma is dark and has dark result. Sometimes karma is light and has light result. Sometimes karma is dark and light and has dark and light result. Sometimes karma is neither dark nor light and has no result. That’s the entirety of various karmas. This is called knowing the results that karma has.

云何知業勝如?謂或有業生地獄中,或有業生畜生中,或有業生餓鬼中,或有業生天上,或有業生人間,是謂知業勝如。

"How are the comparisons* of karma known? Some karma lead to birth in hell; some karma lead to birth among animals; some karma lead to birth among hungry ghosts; some karma lead to birth up in the heavens; and some karma leads to birth among humans. This is called knowing the comparisons of karma.

  • 勝如 literally means “greater likeness,” which is awkward in English.

云何知業滅盡?謂更樂滅業便滅,是謂知業滅盡。

"How is the cessation of karma known? Contact ceases and then karma ceases. This is called knowing the cessation of karma.

云何知業滅道?謂八支聖道,正見乃至正定為八,是謂知業滅道。若比丘如是知業,知業所因生,知業有報,知業勝如,知業滅盡,知業滅道者,是謂達梵行,能盡一切業。

“How is the path to the cessation of karma known? It’s the noble eightfold path. Right view to right concentration are the eight. This is called knowing the path to the cessation of karma. If a monk thus knows karma, knows the cause that gives rise to karma, knows the result that karma has, knows the comparisons of karma, knows the cessation of karma, and knows the path to the cessation of karma, then he’s comprehended the religious life (brahmacaryā). He’s able to end all karma.”


#3

Thank you so much Charles!

There are two kinds of karma: karma of intentions and of past intention. This is called knowing karma.

This seems to translate cetana karma and cetayitva karma; Apparently, sarvastivada considered Karma to be of two types. (1) Cetana(intention) karma- restricted to mind karma
and (2) Cetayitva(having intended) karma referring to speech and bodily karma which are done having been intended by mind.

Ref: Verses quoted here in the notes to the English translation of Abhidharmakosa Bhasya:

https://books.google.co.in/books?id=zYddAwAAQBAJ&pg=PA709&lpg=PA709&dq=cetana+cetayitva+vasubandhu&source=bl&ots=XRB7gg-bAH&sig=ACfU3U0tlRKRt4k5eKx9eBlCvjs88L8RdA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwie9aais_zmAhUXXSsKHUyEA7AQ6AEwAnoECAcQAQ#v=onepage&q=cetana%20cetayitva%20vasubandhu&f=false

T57 is an early An Shigao translation that isn’t easy to translate because his vocabulary is different than later texts that I’m more familiar with.

Oh my, now you have kindled my curiosity even further; Would love to know what the text available to An Shigao , being such an early translator, said!

From google translate, it appears not to mention the five gatis or rebirth as hungry ghosts etc;
Both Vipaka(results) and Vematta(differences) sections of the Pali sutta seem to be explained with reference to black and white deeds unlike the MA and Pali versions…

Of course no conclusions can be drawn based on isolated passages but it is interesting nonetheless…

Much metta,
Ravi


#4

That would make sense. The Chinese places an adverb/particle in front of cetana that’s used to indicate a verb is past tense or a sentence has already happened.