Thread for discussing chapter 5 of Warder for the class on August 29.
Meeting ID: 869 8997 6290
Passcode: 2023
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No question, yet, as Iāve just finished reading Meiland. Have to do Learn Pali and Aj Brahmali before I can conclude my list of questions.
However, while reading Meiland, I want to āpracticeā what Iāve learnt so farā¦
mÄ maį¹ paridevayasi
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Do we have different sentences in Pali for these 4 situations?
- I love you
- I love him
- I love her
- I love it (neuter)
Or all of them are all just ātaį¹ kÄmemiā and we have to base on context?
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Irrelevant but related to your question 
The sentence āI love youā was usually the first one I tried to know when I learnt a foreign language. Somehow, this time I forgot my own habit Perhaps the Pali studies has kept my brain cells too occupied with the word āparidevaā 
Pali does have pronouns for the things you have asked. You may not have gotten up to them in your textbook yet.
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In the vocab, Warder gives for nirodho a range of meanings including cessation, peace of mind, and calm. Are the second and third ever borne out in an obvious way anywhere in the texts? The DPD doesnāt any such sense for nirodho. I have also never found any so far in my readings.
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Lol.
Per Stephenās answer, yes there are different forms of the pronoun. As it happens though, the relevant accusative singular pronouns are all taį¹, although we can also use tvaį¹ for second person and tad for neuter. So in most cases we will have to rely on context.
Indeed, the primary sense is always ācessationā, although of course since this is the cessation of dukkha, Warderās secondary senses are not far off. Perhaps he gave these as a help for people in his context who were not familar with the positive connotations of cessation.
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Itās a bit strange (to me) that the Aorist is used for the imperative mood! Am I reading that right? Any veterans have a clever way for remembering this?
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The aorist is used for a prohibitive construction with āmÄā.
Is this what you mean?
(With this construction it does not have any sense of past. )
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Ah I see. Only in that construction. For the usual (positive) imperative, we useā¦ the present tense?
Itās a bit strange that Warder is introducing āDonātā without formally introducing the imperative first 
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Pali does have an imperative, with its own set of endings. Itās often used in the 2nd person.
Perhaps you havenāt arrived at this yet in Warder.
(The ādonātā construction is often mÄ plus aorist)
PS Iām pretty amazed you are all up to aorist in one month of Pali study!)
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Ah! The very next lesson. Still strange to give āDonātā before āDoā ā¦ But at least I āwonātā have to wait long
So, I guess you canāt use na or ma with the imperative?
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No, mÄ is not used with the imperative mood.
Itās only that special construction with the aorist.
(Itās possible that the mÄ prohibitive sometimes takes present indicative, if I recall. )
Maybe Warder, in his infinite wisdomā¦, has introduced the mÄ prohibitive because he has tied it to his presentation of the aorist?
Not sure, in any case itās important to remember that the aorist used in this special way does not have a past sense.
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PS, I think itās also important to keep in mind that the imperative often does not have a commanding sense, but rather a polite one.
Perhaps this is sometimes called ābenedictiveā?
Not sure
(I know Sanskrit has a distinct Benedictive mood. In Pali the imperative often has this feel. )
E.g. āOpammam karohiā means less āmake a simileā and more, ācould you please make a simileāā¦
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MÄ hāeva mayaį¹ taį¹ sammussimhÄ!
(Is that correct??)
I donāt recall ever seeing a verb like that.
Where did you find it?
How would you translate that sentence?
I was trying to say āMay we not forget it!ā I found sammuss- in the DPD for āto forgetā and tried to make it into the 1st person plural aoristā¦
I think that sense would be conveyed with the imperative form of dhÄreti.
āDhÄrethaā= you all should remember
Steady on now!
Yes, but we havenāt learned the imperative yet 
So I was trying to keep it within the lesson (MÄ + aorist, and pronouns)
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Alam, Khemarata, mÄ soci mÄ parideviā¦
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