SuttaCentral

Calling all Vietnamese speakers - Feedback needed regarding new Vietnamese translation


#1

Dear fellow Vietnamese,
Thân gửi bạn đọc,

I have been translating and editing some discourses in the baskets (nikaya) taught by Siddhāttha Gotama - The Awakened One - from English (versions by Venerable Bodhi, Venerable Thanissaro, Venerable Sujato) into Vietnamese.

Tôi đang dịch và biên tập một số bài giảng trong kho tàng các bài giảng của Bậc thức tỉnh Siddhāttha Gotama từ tiếng Anh (bản dịch của Vị đáng kính Bodhi, Vị đáng kính Thanissaro, Vị đáng kính Sujato) sang tiếng Việt.

Please check the link here: https://goo.gl/NSKsZw
Vui lòng xem đường dẫn ở đây: https://goo.gl/NSKsZw

I would highly appreciate and look forward to hearing your opinions and feedbacks on this translation so I can improve it better and for more discourses to be translated.

Tôi đánh giá cao và mong được nghe ý kiến góp ý của bạn đọc về bản dịch này để tôi hoàn thiện hơn nữa và cho những bài giảng sắp được dịch.

If it works well, I will suggest SuttaCentral (SC) admins to upload it to the main SC site so it may help more Vietnamese readers on SC.

Nếu bản dịch có hiệu quả tốt, tôi sẽ đề xuất ban quản trị trang Suttacentral.net (SC) đăng lên trang chính của SC để bản dịch giúp ích được nhiều bạn đọc người Việt hơn trên SC.

Thank you and best regards,
Chân thành cảm ơn và gửi đến bạn đọc những lời chúc tốt đẹp

Purified Pali Sutta


#2

This is really wonderful :smiley: Thank-you for your work :anjal:


#3

as you hinted :wink: thank you :sunglasses:


#4

Dear purifiedpalisutta,

You should have a Vietnamese version below your calling, then we will share it on our facebook.

The Vietnamese speakers can give their feedback in Vietnamese here and we can brief the feedback into English.

With meta!


#5

Hi @honglamsg ,

You mean bi-linguistic? That’s great! :smiley: I have just edited the calling by adding Vietnamese.

Thanks a lot :smiley:


#6

Hello. Wondering if it would be too much to ask for a side by side translation to cross reference the English original with the Vietnamese translation? I have found that even comparing various English translations of a Sutta is useful in understanding the nuances, in some case.

My concern is a literal translation of any one English translation from Pali into Vietnamese may also miss certain subtlety.

Thank you for the effort. I will spread the word.


#7

Hi @Chevita

Thanks a lot for your idea :smiley:

You can cross reference yourself by comparing the English version by Venerable Bodhi and Venerable Sujato on suttacentral.net and version by Venerable Thanissaro on dhammatalks.org .

Yes, I also thought comparison is useful. In fact, I chose the word for Vietnamese translation based on comparison among those authors’ translation.

But it’s not just translation. I have edited the content, eg rejecting things that I think irrelevant to release.

Many thanks for your offer to spread the word :ok_hand:


#8

Would you like to expand on this point?


#9

Hi @Robbie

The path to awakening and release is purified from 5 collections: DN, MN, SN, AN, KN part 1 (Khuddakapāṭha, Dhammapada, Udāna, Itivuttaka, Sutta Nipāta)

4.1. How to purify:

THE FOUR NOBLE TRUTHS

The path is the fourth noble truth, i.e. noble eightfold path, in accordance with natural flow of wisdom, logic, consistency. Things that divert from this flow, irrelevant to dissatisfaction (stress, suffering, discontentment) and cessation of dissatisfaction (stress, suffering, discontentment), or general speaking - the four noble truths, or things that are unpractical for release from suffering, unprovable, can be skipped (MN 63; MN 22).

4.2. Specifically, the following things can be skipped:

4.2.1. Realms:

(other worlds with living beings):

Ghosts, devils, hell (eg: MN 50), gods (deva, celestial beings, eg: DN 20), realms other than human and animal (eg: MN 12);

4.2.2. The past:

The Awakened Ones before Gautama The Awakened One (eg DN 14), past lives of The Awakened One (DN 17), even his life before awakening, for example the story of his birth in MN 123

4.2.3. The future:

prediction about the next Awakened One (DN 26); deterioration of teachings because of women; reading marks, omens and signs (DN 30); these predictions are considered wrong livelihood (DN 1);

4.2.4. Objects of meditation:

form: earth, water, fire, wind, blue, yellow, red, white (DN 34, section 8. Groups of eight);

4.2.5. formless meditation attainments:

dimension of the infinitude of space, dimension of the infinitude of consciousness, dimension of nothingness, dimension of neither perception nor non-perception and cessation of perception & feeling (MN 111);

4.2.6. Eight emancipations:

It is about view on forms internally and externally, then the formless meditation attainments (DN 15)

4.2.7. The view of 3 realms :

(worlds with beings): sensual realm, luminous form, formless realm (AN 3.76), the word “property” is more accurate, it means sensuality-property (senses), form-property (body), formless-property (mental, the mind) of a person (AN 3.77 - Thanissaro);

4.2.8. The view of fetters:

10 fetters, and 5 higher fetters (DN 33, 5. five)

4.2.9. Fruits:

(stages of awakening - spiritual attainments): stream-entry, once-return, non-return, and perfection (arahants) (MN 34; DN 34 section 4. Groups of four)

4.2.10. Supernatural powers:

supranormal powers, divine ear-element (Clairaudience), knowledge of the awareness of other beings (Mind Reading) (DN 2)

SO I REMOVED THE ABOVE THINGS AND THE LIKE WHEN I TRANSLATED

For more information: https://goo.gl/rBf3i6


#10

If you did so then I understand you shouldn’t expect your translations to be hosted in SuttaCentral. (Note however I don’t have any role in that decision or subject )

You can still discuss it here in D&D but don’t expect people to support your approach.

The best would be to describe your translation as an edited anthology, and make very clear what was left untranslated, and despite your personal preferences point to translations of these whenever available for those interested in learning what are the the underlying texts say.


#11

Hi @gnlaera ,

Thanks a lot for your thoughts.


#12

Than you for clarifying this :slight_smile:
I agree that I wouldn’t call this a straight ‘translation’, because you have removed things according to your own preferences. It has thereby been edited by you. I don’t know the right term to describe something of this sort.

It is neither good nor bad in itself, but it is important to acknowledge up front, so that people know what they are reading. :anjal:


#13

Hi @Viveka ,

Yes! That’s why I said in the original post that I have been “translating and editing”.

I’ll try more :smiley:


#14

I guess, the significance of the ‘editing’ comment slipped below my notice the way it was phrased. Perhaps just highlight that it is an edited version of text :slight_smile:


#15

@Viveka

I’ll try

I don’t intend to translate the whole five nikayas from English into Vietnamese. I just want to translate some discourses that I think they are essential to core teachings: the four noble truths, the noble eightfold path, dependent origination, five clinging-aggregates, six sense bases, four establishings of mindfulness, seven factors for awakening, impermanent - dissatisfactory - not-self,…

By editing, the things I removed and also repeated passages are replaced by the ellipsis.

Thanks again :smiley:


#16

Please be aware that I am no expert in these matters, this is just my opinion. If you want to be extra certain you may with to message or tag Bhante Sujato :slight_smile:
It is wonderful that you are putting such effort into this excellent task :anjal:


#17

Thanks :smiley:

At the first page of the google doc file, I included a link ( https://goo.gl/rw1KDr) to guide readers. It’s the Vietnamese version of the manual to study about release (English version: https://goo.gl/rBf3i6 ). The English file includes standards (quoted in the above comment) to purify the nikayas, based on which I chose which part to be translated and which part to be left behind.

My intent was for Vietnamese readers to access teachings of the Awakened One in a way that is practical to solve problems in life, essential for the present, scientific.

The manual was intended firstly to be a reading guide to encourage and assist people in reading the nikayas and then to encourage people to join a hand in search for the map to practice, steps of the path to awakening and release. The way to find out the map is to purify the nikayas. And so, the edited translation sticks with this direction.

That was my intent.
Cheers :smiley: