Discussion for Bilara users

Meta dev
99

Thank you Bhante @sujato.

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100

If you’d like to do something useful in the meantime, one thing would be to start with the “index of names” and do there what I am doing with the “index of similes”: check each single link, and in case it doesn’t lead to what it says, find the correct Sutta.

It’s a lot of work, but someone has to do it at some point. I am doing it for the similes, and I am not planning to do it for all indexes. The index of names has a multiple of the number of links that the index of similes has, so that would really be a lot of work. But it is necessary to get that thing off the list of “unsafe” texts.

Maybe you can just start, and someone else can step in to help?

If you have questions or are stuck somewhere, just ask me. I may already have found out a few regularities, and you don’t have to re-invent the wheel.

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101

Thanks Ayya @sabbamitta I’ll go through all of your publications details and update the sc-voice source links to the bilara-data locations.

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102

No need, @carmi. Now as I know where it is I can do that myself and create a pull request. I want to make slight changes to the wording anyway. Thank you!

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103

Sure, I can help with that. Although I want to continue translating “safe” site pages in the meantime, I still have some to go through.

What is your workflow for that? You go through the public site like https://suttacentral.net/names and check if each link there lands on the right page?

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104

Ah, good, I wasn’t sure about that.

There are actually two sorts of possible problems:

  1. the link has a wrong structure and doesn’t work because of that, like for example: <a href='an03.100.1-10'>AN 3.100 (i-x)</a>
  2. the Sutta that is indicated by the link doesn’t have what you are looking for, i.e. in my case, the simile indicated is not found in the Sutta pointed to by the link; or in your case, the respective name doesn’t occur.

The first one is relatively easy to fix: in this case, for example, you remove (in your translation) the “0” in the part href='an03.100.1-10', and also the .1-10` doesn’t exist in SC numbering; then you make a note in a post here so that others can see it and correct it in their language.

The second one can be trickier. The most frequent reason I found for a simile not being in the Sutta indicated by the link is that the numbering systems differ on the two websites. If you look into my lists you see lots of examples for that. For example we find AN 7.70 which stems from Access to Insight, but the Sutta is actually AN 7.74 on SuttaCentral.

So in such a case, if I don’t find the simile in AN 7.70, I go to AN 7.70 on AtI to look what it is and then have to find that Sutta on SC … that’s the most time consuming thing. Because you can’t expect the same terminology on SC, so you can’t just search for a passage from the AtI Sutta; but you have to search according to meaning and what you remember the wording could be; preferably, of course, within the same section. So AN 7 Suttas should be found within AN 7. Sometimes you may just click through that chapter; but the numbers may be considerably apart in some cases.

Another problem that I found sometimes is that apparently the abbreviation is handled differently on the two websites. The most prominent example for that are DN 11 and 12, which are frequently mentioned in the simile index, but don’t have any of the indicated similes on SC. Instead, so far I found all the similes in DN 10 (which seems not to be included in the translated Suttas on AtI).

And in very few cases I couldn’t find the indicated simile anywhere at all. In which case I left this item out in my translation.

I am now through about 75% of the simile index, doing a little every day.

Actually, just remembered, I already collected a few here, but there must be many more. But so you have a start and can see what I did.

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105

Ok thanks @sabbamitta :pray: we’re keeping _publication.json and _publication-v2.json up to date at the moment

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106

Ah good, thanks! (Oh, D&D wants more characters …)

Added later:
I have now made my changes and created 2 pull requests

Apart from the slight changes in wording I wanted to apply to the the translation process and translation description (and adding those where they weren’t there), I have still

  • changed the deprecated Voice links to current SC links

    Where there have been SC links they pointed to the master branch which also doesn’t exist any more, so I changed that to published instead.

  • In _publicatin.json I have removed Voice as having the first edition. Now the first edition is on SC everywhere.

    When we first did this, I wasn’t using Bilara yet and published my translations on Voice, while they weren’t yet on SC. Now things are different. It is not possible to discern what has been created according to the old workflow, so I just made everything SC first. After all, there should be hardly any Sutta left that didn’t have bigger or smaller changes made in Bilara.

The problem with the master branch URL does also exist for other translation projects, but I only changed my own. So @carmi, there’s still something for you to do.

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107

Ok, so I guess it might be good to start doing that while I actually translate the page of Index of Names, no?

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108

Yes, that’s what I am doing with the similes.

And just looking again to that post where I started collecting problems with the “names” index, I haven’t proposed any fixes there, just pointed out some problems I happened to notice.

If you start doing that page you can let me know so that initially we can both look there until you find your workflow. I found mine while doing the similes.

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109

Ok, sounds good. I just started on mn-guide-sujato but I will let you know when I start on the names. Thank you for the suggestion and for the details on this.

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110

Great! That will benefit many people, not just the French. I think these indexes are really useful tools—if they work.

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111

In the 19th Saṁyutta, only the first Sutta has a blurb. Can the others be added please? Bhante @sujato :pray:

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112

Bhante @sujato, I’ve made a new issue for you:

113

Thanks for the prompt Ayya, this is done :pray:

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114

Okay, I need a new post again. This job is longer than D&D allows. :smile:

  • swift pair of messengers: SN 35.204 → SN35.245 on SC
  • sword drawn from its scabbard: DN 11, 12 → DN 10 on SC
  • tall building in central square: DN 11, 12 → DN 10 on SC; MN 39 is mentioned in the list, but has a different simile for the same point on SC, both in translation and in root, so I remove it
  • tendon in fire: SN 7.46 → SN 7.49 on SC
  • tortoise evading a jackal: SN 35.199 → SN 35.240 on SC
  • travel, from village to village: DN 11, 12 → DN 10 on SC
  • travel, in desolate country: DN 11, 12 → DN 10 on SC
  • treasure, doorways leading to: AN 11.17 → AN 11.16 on SC
  • tree, gold: Thig 14 → Thig 14.1 on SC
  • turban or head on fire, person with: wrong link format, href='/an06.20' → href='/an6.20'
  • uprighting what had been overturned: The following Suttas don’t have the simile on SC (due to abbreviation) and should be removed from the list: MN 57, MN 58, MN 72, SN 7.2, SN 7.6, SN 7.14, SN 7.17, SN 12.48, SN 42.3, SN 42.6, SN 42.8, SN 42.9, AN 3.65, AN 4.111, AN 4.184, AN 10.176, AN 10.177 (so it seems AtI has expanded the root text in a lot of cases, or has a different root text)
  • village, empty: SN 35.197 → SN 35.238 on SC
  • vipers: SN 35.197 → SN 35.238 on SC
  • water, drops in a hot pan: SN 35.203 → SN 35.244 on SC
  • wounded man wandering in jungle: SN 35.206 → SN 35.247 on SC
  • wounds, dressing: AN 11.18 → AN 11.17 on SC
  • yokes, sense bases and their objects: SN 35.191 → SN 35.232 on SC
115

Hey all, just a general polite request.

Try not to publish too often. We’ve got a bunch of French translations, great to see! But better not publish each sutta individually.

Basically, whenever anything is published or updated, it goes through a manual process that has to be approved, either by Carmi or I, and each run requires maybe 5 minutes of computer crunching time. There are boring technical reasons why this is so, but the outcome is that it’s better to process things by batch.

As a normal standard, I’d suggest that if you’re working regularly, publish a batch no more than once a week. Maybe publish per vagga rather than per sutta.

It’s okay to publish or update an individual sutta now and then, but try not to make it your normal workflow.

For myself, I translated the four nikayas before publishing any of them, and I really value that. So many times, I thought I had it, then went back and changed it because of something that I came across much later.

Take your time, do the best quality work you possibly can, and remember the simile of the chariot! :pray:

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116

My apologies Bhante @sujato, @carmi.

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117

Thanks, I will keep this in mind and apologies for the trouble in the past few months. :anjal:

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118

No apologies needed, love and respect only!

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