Good to mention this point. But, asubha practice is not included in the SN/SA suttas regarding the ‘mindfulness’ practice for ‘samatha’:
One of the meditative practices for overcoming sensual pleasures (kāmā) mentioned in SN35.127 = SA 1165 is the practice of “mother-mind (mātu-cittam), sister-mind (bhaginī-cittam), and daughter-mind (dhītu-cittam)”:
Pages 100-1 from The Fundamental Teachings of Early Buddhism Choong Mun-keat 2000.pdf (162.3 KB)
This is what the majority of my post above is about. I recommend re-considering what I said about the iddhipādas (which are a practice leading to samādhi and describe developing sati via asubha) and about the definition and usage of ‘kāye kāyānaupassī viharati’ as a more general category.
I can also ask: do you disagree that observing and contemplating the body parts fits as a proper way of applying ‘kāyānupassanā’? What do you think ‘kāyānupassanā’ entails apart from the body-aspect of mindfulness of breathing?
Reading this passage, the author says:
If, however, his mind is still unsteady and burning with desire-hatred-delusion, then he should turn to the practice of reflecting on the body as impure
If asubha is for ending “desire-hatred-delusion” as above, then it fits in with “true insight of the real world” as per your definition here.
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The Buddha in fact teaches ānāpānasati instead of asubha practice. He has made a mistake for some monks (see Ānāpāna Saṃyutta of SN/SA).
It is therefore asubha practice is not included in the SN/SA suttas regarding the ‘mindfulness’ practice for ‘samatha’.
Also, MN118 Anapanasati sutta (also MN10 Satipatthana sutta) is an expanded version of the satipatthana from SN/SA suttas (such as SN 47.2 = SA 622 on satipatthana, SN 54.1 = SA 803 on anapanasati).
Asubha practice cannot end “desire-hatred-delusion”. The practice of ‘right view’ is needed for the ending, according to the core teachings of SN/SA suttas.
Can I ask what you take ‘kāye kāyānupassī viharati’ to mean in actual practice — apart from the breath?
At SN 54.13 the breath is said to be a ‘certain [aspect of the] body’ (‘kāyaññatra’). So as Bhante Sujato has translated, ‘kāye kāyānupassī,’ seems to indicate observing ‘an aspect of the body,’ or a certain bodily component in the larger context of the body and bodily phenomena.
So it seems that being continually mindful of, say, the bodily process of breathing, or a bodily part, or bodily elements, etc. that one is fulfilling ‘kāye kāyānupassī viharati.’ This would mean that what is called ‘asubha’ meditation would be a valid option for cultivating sammāsati if one added in the other components of right mindfulness.
Do you have any examples of mindfulness of the body beyond the breath? And what do you make of the iddhipāda-vibhanga passages I mentioned where body part meditation is said to be an aspect of cultivating samādhi/samatha? I’d like to get a better sense of what you have in mind. 
Its corresponding counterpart SA 810 also does not mention the term asubha. So, the mindfulness practice for samādhi/samatha in the SN/SA suttas should not include asubha meditation.
I consider these nine meditative states of concentration (samādhi) can be regarded as the so-called mystical experiences.
Hi Thomas. I think I may not have been clear.
I’m asking what you would say ‘kāye kāyānupassī viharati’ — part of the definition for right mindfulness — means in actual practice? That is, what is an example of actually fulfilling these instructions other than ānāpānassati?
The parallel Chinese phrase is ‘身身觀念處.’ How does one practice ‘身身觀念處’ without using the breath as the main theme of mindfulness? What other themes could be used?
Yes, it certainly needs breath for the sati practice.
So you would say mindfulness of breathing is the only valid form of satipatthana practice? Any other type of contemplation is inauthentic?
Anapanasati and satipatthana are not the same content in SN/SA suttas. See sati for samatha in SN/SA suttas:
So, you are not answering my question. I will try once more and see if we can communicate effectively, otherwise it may be best to set it aside.
I am not asking for a citation of the definition of sati or ānāpānassati. I’ve already cited that for you here.
I am asking what does the practice of ‘sati’ or ‘satipatthana’ look like in practice apart from mindfulness of breathing. What does one actually do with their mind with a concrete example? What does mindfulness practice look like in reality if one is being mindful of something other than the breath?
Do you understand the question? Feel free to ask for further clarification if the question does not make sense to you.
One example of an answer would be “one focuses on the sensations of a body part, like the hands.” Or “one can only be mindful of the in-and-out breathing for right mindfulness.” These are examples of how the answer I’m looking for might be formulated.
Yes. What does
Here, friends, you abide in body contemplating body
look like for example?
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I’m wondering if the @moderators could take a look at this thread of communication starting here in the thread [and ideally elsewhere in other threads as well]. I’m noticing recurring patterns consistently in the forum that seem to be merely ineffective communication, or worse inconsiderate / unremittingly stubborn. Some of the communication style is almost robotic and is suspicious to me, and it has been going unaddressed. All the best.
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Note: SA 622 version presents ‘awareness’ first (an example), ‘mindfulness’ second.
I now have to point out that this is not really a ‘right speech’ at all for the process of suttas/dhamma discussions in this forum.
Anyone is free to disagree and agree with any suggestions, viewpoints during the process of suttas/dhamma discussions.
‘Right speech’ in Buddhism is about abstaining from lying speech, abstaining from defamatory speech, abstaining from abusive speech, and abstaining from frivolous speech.
Let me know if I am not correct.