For me it’s always been important to have friends on the Buddhist path, it is both a support and a challenge. There are quite a lot of references in the suttas to the benefits of seclusion, though I’m not entirely clear what “seclusion” means in this context.
5 Likes
Seclusion, in my mind is both point 3 and point 7 in @Gabriel’s post above.
As a lay person this is just taking time out to do nothing and be on your own, as well as meditate. As well as not engaging in gossip and idle chatter. Meaningful conversation about Dhamma with friends and spiritual companions are lovely and beneficial though. Though to me there can be too much of that too. I’ve turned into quite the hermit
10 Likes
To me, the ultimate kalyāṇamitta is the Tathagata.
The individuals we meet along the path are helpful vehicles for the liberating contagion of the Dhamma.
Note that special attention should be given those who accomplished and good (sappurisa) and always willing and available to point us the right way and direction to aim our choices, or at least conducive towards hearing/ studying/ considering investigating the Dhamma.
I understand big picture suttas like AN10.61 support such understanding.
Personally, things got much simpler, clearer and productive when I considered and adopted this perspective of things.
9 Likes
As can be seen from the above AN8.2, DN34, the reason to have KMs is to obtain the Dhamma - textually, verbally and modelled, I might add. KMs can be challenging too- if they haven’t become enlightened yet- so then they become an object to practice your divine abodes, and insight on …resulting in letting go of cravings, aversions, and delusions. They may initially show be alluring (assada), then as the allure fades, they may show their drawbacks -aadinava-(or drawbacks of the relationship). The important bit is to not become averse here, but persist until the drawbacks fade away and turn into release (nissanara) from the relationship with the object of concern.
KM must essentially lead to seclusion. Seclusion here is both tranquillity and insight as shown in Iti45. SN45.2 shows below how the Noble Eight Fold Path arrive at dispassion and cessation- the final result of the intertwining of tranquillity (samatha) and insight (vipassana)
“And how, Ānanda, does a bhikkhu who has a good friend, a good companion, a good comrade, develop and cultivate the Noble Eightfold Path? Here, Ānanda, a bhikkhu develops right view, which is based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in release. He develops right intention … right speech … right action … right livelihood … right effort … right mindfulness … right concentration, which is based upon seclusion, dispassion, and cessation, maturing in release. It is in this way, Ānanda, that a bhikkhu who has a good friend, a good companion, a good comrade, develops and cultivates the Noble Eightfold Path. SN45.2
with metta
8 Likes
One of my favourite suttas: Ud 4.1 Meghiyasutta:
Here we have an example of someone who tries to practise in seclusion without being mature enough for this, disregarding the Buddha’s advise and even neglecting his duties as the Buddha’s attendant!
The Buddha then explains to him how to bring his mind to maturity:
“For he whose freedom of mind is not fully mature, Meghiya, there are five things that lead to maturity. What five?
“Here, Meghiya, a monk has a good friend, a good companion, a good comrade. For he whose freedom of mind is not fully mature, Meghiya, this is the first thing that leads to maturity.
“Furthermore, Meghiya, a monk is virtuous, he lives restrained with the Pātimokkha restraint, and is endowed with suitable conduct and resort, seeing danger in the slightest faults, he trains in the training rules he has undertaken. For he whose freedom of mind is not fully mature, Meghiya, this is the second thing that leads to maturity.
“Furthermore, Meghiya, a monk has talk about what is very austere, that is suitable for opening up the mind, and that leads to absolute disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, peace, deep knowledge, complete Awakening and Emancipation, such as: talk on wanting little, talk on being satisfied, talk on complete seclusion, talk on disassociation, talk on arousing energy, talk on virtue, talk on concentration, talk on wisdom, talk on freedom, talk on knowing and seeing freedom. Such talk as this he gains as he desires, he gains without difficulty, gains without trouble. For he whose freedom of mind is not fully mature, Meghiya, this is the third thing that leads to maturity.
“Furthermore, Meghiya, a monk dwells with energy aroused for the giving up of unwholesome things, for the taking up of wholesome things, steadfast, of firm endeavour, one who has not thrown off the burden in regard to wholesome things. For he whose freedom of mind is not fully mature, Meghiya, this is the fourth thing that leads to maturity.
“Furthermore, Meghiya, a monk is wise, he is endowed with wisdom that leads to seeing rise and disappearance, with noble penetration, that leads to the complete destruction of suffering. For he whose freedom of mind is not fully mature, Meghiya, this is the fifth thing that leads to maturity.
“For he whose freedom of mind is not fully mature, Meghiya, these five things leads to maturity.
And he continues:
“It can be expected, Meghiya, that for a monk who has a good friend, a good companion, a good comrade, that he will be virtuous, that he will live restrained with the Pātimokkha restraint, and will be endowed with suitable conduct and resort, seeing danger in the slightest fault, and will train in the training rules he has undertaken.
“It can be expected, Meghiya, that for a monk who has a good friend, a good companion, a good comrade, that he will have talk that is very austere, that is suitable for opening up the mind, and that leads to absolute disenchantment, dispassion, cessation, peace, deep knowledge, complete Awakening and Emancipation, such as: talk on wanting little, talk on being satisfied, talk on complete seclusion, talk on disassociation, talk on stirring up energy, talk on virtue, talk on concentration, talk on wisdom, talk on freedom, talk on knowing and seeing freedom. Such talk as this he gains as he desires, he gains without difficulty, gains without trouble.
“It can be expected, Meghiya, that for a monk who has a good friend, a good companion, a good comrade, that he will be a monk with energy aroused for the giving up of unwholesome things, for the taking up of wholesome things, steadfast, of firm endeavour, one who has not thrown off the burden in regard to wholesome things.
“It can be expected, Meghiya, that for a monk who has a good friend, a good companion, a good comrade, that he will be wise, endowed with wisdom that leads to seeing rise and disappearance, with noble penetration, that leads to the complete destruction of suffering.
This means, having the first of the five factors, a good spiritual friend, this will automatically help fulfilling the other four factors! 
11 Likes
Thanks for this. I didn’t know of this sutta 
2 Likes
Thanks for this wonderful thread!
In the first instance it reminds me of a confusion I ran into a while ago about something that appears at least once (although I think I recall a similar idea popping up a few times) in the Dhammapada:
Should a seeker not find a companion who is better or equal, let him resolutely pursue a solitary course; there is no fellowship with the fool. (Dhp 61)
If everyone followed this, I wondered, how would anyone be able to become companions with some who is better than them (the better one would reject the other as a ‘fool’)? The logical difficulty makes me think perhaps I missed something, maybe something that has relevance to the question here.
I’ve never really thought on the possibility the ‘good friend’ of the suttas might have ‘restricted’ meaning, but it does rather make sense to me how this might refer to just those who’ve broken through to stream entry or beyond.
Saying that, even if this were so, I think there’s enough evidence in the suttas to show that a more ‘mundane’ kind of good friendship is also pretty important on the path, eg. Thag 17.3, or AN 7.36 (+ all those places where the Buddha recommends Dhamma discussion and so on).
Taking up the experiential side of things mentioned in the OP, I think lay life very readily demonstrates to me how useful it can be to hangout with people who are interested in the Dhamma via the contrast in the nature of conversations one can find oneself in.
To me, just that shows how beneficial and encouraging it is to share company with someone who at least to some degree agrees with the basic premise that the satisfactions a well-adapted member of society is typically meant to seek are pretty much hollow, and that meaningful, secure satisfaction is available.
Then there is the gift of witnessing and reflecting on good qualities friends display in everyday contexts and the practical lessons this might afford. Likewise, all the sharing of bits and bobs (deeds that fortify committent, common difficulties, minor successes and whatnot) seems to serve as a very helpful anchor.
Also, the most intriguing discovery I have made is that friends can be astonishingly and unbearably kind. Kindness, apparently, is a big deal on the path, especially when said path is giving you a thrashing! 
13 Likes
I felt the same way as you when I read that stanza, Aminah. There’s another sutta, though (AN 3.26), that expands on when we might associate with one who’s less-developed (bold added by me):
“And what kind of person, bhikkhus, is not to be associated with, followed, and served? Here, some person is inferior to oneself in virtuous behavior, concentration, and wisdom. Such a person is not to be associated with, followed, and served except out of sympathy and compassion.
The whole sutta (it’s short) is relevant to the thread, as it teaches how one should interact with the three levels of people: those less-developed than one, those equally-developed, and those more-developed.
14 Likes
In Snp 1.3, it is said that “one should live alone like a rhinoceros” as a way to steer clear of problems and negative external/internal circumstances, however, if a spiritual friend can be found, one should stay with him/her.
In Snp 1.3, there is a single passage that doesn’t end with “one should live alone like a rhinoceros horn”, but instead ends with “one should live with him, satisfied and mindful”.
If one should find a judicious companion,
a fellow wanderer, of good behavior, resolute,
having overcome all obstacles, one should
live with him, satisfied and mindful. (11)But if one does not find a judicious companion,
a fellow wanderer, of good behavior, resolute,
like a king who has abandoned a conquered realm,
one should live alone like a rhinoceros horn. (12)Surely, we praise the excellence of companionship:
one should resort to companions one’s equal or better.
Not obtaining these, as one who eats blamelessly
one should live alone like a rhinoceros horn. (13)
Snp 1.3, Khaggavisāṇa Sutta — The Rhinoceros Horn (transl. Bhikkhu Bodhi)
9 Likes
I very much like MN34 and the beautiful imagery of the:
… young new-born calf which, by following the lowing of its mother, also cut across the stream of the Ganges and went safely beyond …
4 Likes
By coincidental wandering I came across AN1.94-5:
Bhikkhus, I do not see even a single thing that leads to such great harm as bad friendship. Bad friendship leads to great harm. (AN1.94)
Bhikkhus, I do not see even a single thing that leads to such great good as good friendship. Good friendship leads to great good. (AN1.95)
In turn it occurred to me, if ‘the good friend’ did, indeed, have a precise meaning of the Buddha or a (technically) noble person, then here I might expect a corresponding precise meaning for a bad friend, and I just can’t think of one (sure there is Mara, but to me it this would be an incredibly awkward fit what with his not being a regular person one can make friends with).
Going by this line of thinking alone, I feel it reasonable to think ‘the good friend’ has a broad definition of anyone who supports the development of wholesome qualities and wisdom and such.
8 Likes
I think this is one who increases craving, aversion and delusions in you. Can’t remember the sutta right now.
With metta
1 Like
Actually I have lot of spiritual friends around me. (not to mention you. 
I do not expect my spiritual friend to be an Arahant or Sotapanna.
What I need is someone who can give me some sensible answers to my questions and perhaps a role model.
4 Likes
I don’t expect my spiritual friends to be sotapana+ either. I’m just saying there are the people I discuss Dhamma with and then there are the people I trust with the ‘big stuff’. The people who if I had a choice we’d stay together and even when we aren’t we’ve got each other’s shoulder to cry on and share in each other’s joy and triumphs. Maybe you have many of these. In which case much mudita to you.
6 Likes
Unfortunately, most of my Kalyanamittas from Internet except say three friends.
My definition of Kalyanamitta is a person who helps with my dhamma path.
5 Likes
Most of mine are online too. I’m just differentiating between those who I would share intimate practice stuff with and people I would discuss suttas etc with. There’s benefits in both.
I always say I’m an internet Buddhist when people ask how I found the Dhamma.
Right now my closest Dhamma-sister is on the other side of the world and I’m so greatful for the magic of WhatsApp!
8 Likes
Yes, it is great when there is the entire (on-line) world to choose from, when it comes to friends.
I had this really unusual thought- is it possible to ordain someone, on-line? It is rather off topic, but…
with metta
2 Likes
Probably. Plenty will fly to Asia just to be ordained. However, in my mind you should live with your teacher and spiritual community to absorb all their good qualities (and to learn about your kilesa)
…
Back on topic
5 Likes