Generating examples for use in Voice and other applications with Georg’s script

Adding “Mögliche als möglich” which exists already in English (“the possible as possible”).

I am also adding “hair-raising” | “haarsträubend” (9 results).

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:scream_cat:

MN12:64.6: “Well, Nāgasamāla, you may remember this exposition of the teaching as ‘The Hair-raising Discourse’.”

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My favorite part of this is how the Pāli redactors refused to take the Buddha up on his offer :joy:

Yeah… no… That’s weird. Hair? Let’s stick with “The Lion’s Roar.” Sounds better. Oh? We already have one? Fine. “The Greater Discourse on the Lion’s Roar”

:rofl:

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Lions have hair too!

Screenshot from 2021-05-14 13-52-39

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Yes. I was wondering at that change. It is a beautiful example of:

SN22.94:1.2: “Mendicants, I don’t argue with the world; it’s the world that argues with me.

And it’s also an example of the Buddha’s humor. :laughing:

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It’s not the only case where a sutta is known under different titles. Sometimes we find different titles in different manuscript traditions.

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Yes. The whole point of the redaction was to make the Nikayas easier to remember… and that choice certainly was memorable!

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:thinking:
I think we all need a memorable basis for studying the suttas. These mnemonic phrases may differ by individual, but they are so much easier to recall since the phrases themselves are integral to the spoken wisdom. I would rather remember “vital condition” than “SN12.23”.

What modern technology offers is a way to pool these mnemonics into a shared pool of examples searchable by all. This is the heart of the search-by-example feature used by Voice and EBT-Sites.

Personally, I’m much more inclined to “Hair-Raising”. Here, let me touch my spine by patting my stomach.

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Well that’s a bit of a straw man: this numbering was a modern invention to facilitate books, not memory. Nobody is memorizing SN numbers! If they do, they’re in for a surprise as these aren’t even consistent across modern editions. Which is also a problem with basing understanding on one translation.

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I’m finding that listening to the Pali along with Bhante Sujato’s translation segment by segment adds a lot. There is meaning locked into Pali that cannot be easily translated into any modern language. In these older languages, the sounds themselves are evocative and resonate in subtle ways physically in tune with the body. A good example is “neutral” vs. “adukkhamasukhaṁ”. Here in the Pali we hear how close dukkha and sukkha are. We also hear “not either”.

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Because of the importance of Pali, Voice and EBT-Sites are focused on modern translations as a bridge to Pali. By default, Pali is shown and spoken together with the modern translation segment by segment. And Pali is always spoken first to trigger that “neutral” feeling which resonates a bit before resolving into the modern translation. In this manner, the mind automatically learns Pali followed by its modern echo.

The ideal contemporary translation for this “Pali-echo” approach is therefore the simplest and broadest contemporary translation. Indeed, Bhante Sujato’s approach of “least interpretive meaning” is perfect. Rather than trying to smash contemporary language into a vessel for the entire Dhamma, we accept a simple yet compelling translation that can reach many.

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When we discussed this I forgot to add “meditation of the gods | Meditation der Götter” to the examples—did it now. It’s the second singleton that pairs with “bed of the gods | Bett der Götter”.

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Adding examples:

  • “into debt”, replacing “who has gotten into debt”, so it also includes AN 6.45 with “who has fallen into debt”
  • “discernment of principles” | “Sehen der Gesetzmäßigkeiten” | “Gesetzmäßigkeiten klar”
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That’s such an interesting set of suttas. :pray:

AN6.45:22.5: This is how, for a householder,
AN6.45:22.6: merit grows by generosity.

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We have one example “worthy of veneration” which has 31 results. I just found that Bhante translated añjalikaraṇīyo sometimes as “worthy of veneration with joined palms” (31 results) and sometimes as “worthy of greeting with joined palms” (36 results). I have made him aware, and if he is going to make it consistent, we’ll have 67 results for that … :scream_cat: … which would perhaps be a bit much.


Still adding:

  • [EN already there] | ohne die Muster
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Perhaps we can replace all these with “homage with joined palms”.

AN9.33 seems to provide a good and simple singleton instead of 67 results.

AN9.33:1.9: They’d say ‘Good!’ and bowing down, they’d pay homage with joined palms.

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Good idea! Replaced. :white_check_mark:

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Adding more examples:

  • the sure path | den sicheren Pfad
  • bag of bones | Knochensack
  • five destinations | fünf Bestimmungsorte
  • grueling | [no translation yet]
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Added “cycle of rebirth” as the relevant answer for suicide question

SN22.56:5.2: Those who are well freed are consummate ones.
SN22.56:5.3: For consummate ones, there is no cycle of rebirths to be found.

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Adding “Kreislauf der Wiedergeburten”.

It also has

DN15:22.6: Ettāvatā adhivacanapatho, ettāvatā niruttipatho, ettāvatā paññattipatho, ettāvatā paññāvacaraṁ, ettāvatā vaṭṭaṁ vattati itthattaṁ paññāpanāya yadidaṁ nāmarūpaṁ saha viññāṇena aññamaññapaccayatā pavattati.
DN15:22.6: This is how far the scope of language, terminology, and description extends; how far the sphere of wisdom extends; how far the cycle of rebirths proceeds so that this state of existence is to be found; namely, name and form together with consciousness.
DN15:22.6: Bis zu diesem Punkt erstreckt sich der Geltungsbereich von Sprache, Ausdrucksweise und Beschreibung; erstreckt sich der Bereich der Weisheit; setzt sich der Kreislauf der Wiedergeburten fort, so dass es diesen Daseinszustand gibt: nämlich, dass Name und Form und Bewusstsein in wechselseitiger Abhängigkeit stehen.

As a side note: Interestingly, in trilingual mode all three languages are linked to German in scv-bilara; but it is not possible to see more than two of them on the website.

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