Hmmm I know you are joking but you have to see ruler for what it really is.
There is a huge difference between being the victim of a psychopath ruler and being the one running his errands and doing evil deeds, don’t you think?
Also, don’t you think it is sad that some carry out these awful actions for their corrupt rulers? All based on lies/manipulation.
No clue what you mean and why you dismiss the fact that there are billions of great people on this planet right now, this very day in May of 2024 while you read this.
I am not of the view that one is only a good & wise person if one happens to be a buddhist.
I have no problems with the West, there are tons of great people here in the West too.
Each individual is unique and some might not be religious/spirtual but still ethical, friendly, open-minded, generous without following any spiritual path in this given moment of time and this current life of theirs.
And no one should be forced to follow any religion, no matter how great.
During The Buddha’s time:
Ajita Kesakambalī taught materialism: with death, all is annihilated.
Pūraṇa Kassapa denied any reward or punishment for either good or bad deeds.
So these views are not exclusively Western if that is what you mean.
You forget that all humans have eons of experiences from previous lives/existences, which has certainly made an huge impact on their character and choices in this current life - so why generalize like a certain type of person is only found in the west?
You have in reality no clue what people are actually about and what they stand for, this even includes the people very close to you:
AN 4.192 Facts:
You can get to know a person’s ethics by living with them. But only after a long time, not casually; only when attentive, not when inattentive; and only by the wise, not the witless.
You can get to know a person’s purity by dealing with them. …
You can get to know a person’s resilience in times of trouble. …
You can get to know a person’s wisdom by discussion. But only after a long time, not casually; only when attentive, not when inattentive; and only by the wise, not the witless.
As long as you don’t let the bad things in life overpower you and are steady in your Buddhist practice you are to be considered living the Holy Life, as you have accepted the Three Jewels in Refuge, and are following Gautama Buddha’s Buddhadhamma. Being a true Buddhist, the negativity isn’t to strike you as a personal failure. Have Faith, for Buddha has overcome the Saha World!
And? I ask for a reference in the sutta’s that Mara lives in the highest kama loka realm?
I am not joking. Mara is really described as foremost ruler
Yes, but maybe this psychopath ruler Mara is much more subtle and deceptive and maybe you will see him even as friend. From what i know of Mara from the sutta’s , do not expact violence of Mara, but very much love, compassion, care, comfort, support. He will do what makes you a happy person. Mara is a nice guy. The nicest. Really a sweetheart. If you meet Mara, you will think…that is really a nice guy.
For me this is not the issue. Germans were also great people. But when Hitler ruled they were intoxicated by his grant vision, so common to leaders. That happens also here and now. Humans are extremely easy to manipulate and intoxicate with ideas about a grant shining future.
Yes, but that can all change very quickly. This world is in a few minutes on fire. It does never take much.
In 2018 i have investigated all the sutta’s in which the teachings of contemporary teachers are described. I have compared this all with Buddha’s teachings. People did find that interesting. I shared this on a Dutch buddhaforum. Doing this i always strictly seperate sutta’s and personal comments.
Making that serie of post I was surprised that many views that are also common nowadays were 2500 years ago also discussed, debated etc. It is also interesting to compare those teachings with the Buddha’s.
It was a nice thing to do.
I did not suggest this.
I think you see something terrible in me but i do not think we understand eachother here and now.
It is not like this. Seeking relief of suffering in external things is not bad. It is normal, it is not immoral.
Look at it. How many times we seek relief in external things and do not deal with the inner causes and conditions for our suffering? Forget about living the holy life as Buddha meant it.
I do not doubt that. I know for sure it is amazing he did.
As long as there is a steady balance between inner and outer, we can at least say we are getting there. Even the Arhat in Nibbana with remainder can enjoy a good meal, or on the other hand, the Bliss of Cessation. Balance.
There are countless innocent victims, immense suffering and it is also sad that some out of ignorance/greed/hate fall into believing in liars/manipulators and follow their commands.
I remember a monk on Youtube telling this story:
During World War 1 they discovered that way too much ammunition was being used and they were thanks to this almost running out of ammunition with no chance of supplying more.
It turns out the soldiers used up all the ammunition by shooting the bullets in the sky or into a forest because deep down inside they did not want to kill anyone.
After that ”failure” in WW1, propaganda was used in all shapes and forms to show soldiers and the general public just how ”evil” all the enemies were and by doing so insuring that future soldiers could justify killing any enemy…
It really shows that it is not in our nature to be killers.
In fact all the things that goes against Sila is deeply unnatural: stealing, sexual misconduct, getting drunk and of course lying(!).
I don’t agree that something as trivial as nationality can make anyone a great person or even ever will.
What I personally consider great is way beyond such things as belonging to a certain group of people who talk a certain way, eat certain things, celebrate certain things and listen to certain music - nationality is such a superficial thing and says nothing about the individual who happen to live in that country.
If anything during Hitler, only the germans who stood up against him and downright refused to have anything with the nazis can be said to be great people.
It is also the very people who believe in and who follow the dictates of what makes up a ”nationalistic identity” (or any other type of group for that matter) who usually commit the most horrible crimes.
They are already intoxicated with pride, jealousy, hate, greed, contempt for anyone different and are therefore extremely easy to manipulate. (There’s a ”threat” to the group and action is needed)
But I disagree that humans in general are easy to manipulate and they can somehow become evil over night - it doesn’t quite work like that.
To me egotism is usually bound to a group, and there are MANY groups out there.
Depends on the situation, I would run away from someone that tried to somehow impress me with how ”noble” they are - or tried to make me think with flattery how lovely I am… Those who truly are good people hardly speak about it and have no need to show others ”just how good they are”.
That is also why we don’t praise The Buddha for such things as others might praise him, but for all that other amazing stuff mentioned in DN 1.
And those amazing insights in DN 1 are bound to attainments, and attainments are never discussed publicly for anyone to listen to.
So what would Māra do?
Start praising one for things he can’t achieve himself?
When it is in fact those very things being praised that he also tries to prevent one from achieving.
Ouch, it must really split the mind several times to be evil and not realize how stupid one actually is.
No no, you could actually use the same facts mentioned in the sutta against me and what I wrote!
I mean, how can I be so sure that there are ethical, pure, resilient and wise people out there? I haven’t lived with these people ’for a long time’, quite frankly I haven’t lived with them at all…
You can get to know a person’s ethics by living with them. But only after a long time, not casually; only when attentive, not when inattentive; and only by the wise, not the witless.
You can get to know a person’s purity by dealing with them. …
You can get to know a person’s resilience in times of trouble. …
You can get to know a person’s wisdom by discussion. But only after a long time, not casually; only when attentive, not when inattentive; and only by the wise, not the witless.
I believe from my own experience that becoming a bit more moral, integer, true to oneself, is a slow proces of becoming more sensitive. One cannot really expact such from young people, from teenagers and adolescents and people who are younger then 150 years
The world cannot learn one to become an integer person or a more sensitive person, i believe. Not the bosses, the leaders, the parents, the friends. My experience is, it grows from suffering. Only suffering can do the job. Suffering makes one more humble. One sees one does not rule. Suffering opens the eyes, as it were. I believe, it is wrong to think about suffering as bad or non-beneficial. It is benefical to ripen, grow in wisdom, love, compassion. What do we really learn from happiness? Often only ego-conceit grows. Only delusion grows.
I agree with the Buddha that the world is intoxicated by youth, health, life, succes, power, status, pleasure. That is really true. And this dream, this intoxication, is also what we seem to desire.
Movie, amusements, theater, novels, intoxication. Stories in our head, intoxication.
Ego, intoxication. We just like to be drunk, right. What is life without being drunk? Can you handle that? Nature works because of intoxication. Mara the Great Bartender. Our Friend.
I do not want to judge people but i believe it is extremly rare to meet a person that even wants to sober up.
I understand what you are trying to say but of course disagree with it.
There are numerous reasons why I disagree with what you wrote.
This ”slow process” is not bound to one life, you have no clue what experiences all the children born today have had prior to the rebirth they had today.
Some children come here being very sensitive and can even remember past lives when they are 5 or 6 years old.
Only youngsters by convention, elders in heart and mind.
First of all let us make it very clear that the suffering that comes due to the actions of evil people and fools has no benefit at all to anyone. And never will.
The victims and/or those close to the victims experience sorrow, anger, sadness, depression etc.
And those that commit the evil deeds end up in hell.
Now that type of suffering these fools experience in hell does indeed make them change their mind, but as you see both the victim and the one doing evil both lose - there is no real winner in this scenario.
We can learn more than you could ever imagine from happiness!
If you look at Reverse Dependent Origination it starts with suffering which is negative but every other step is positive and a form of happiness:
Suffering is a vital condition for faith.
Faith is a vital condition for joy.
Joy is a vital condition for rapture.
Rapture is a vital condition for tranquility.
Tranquility is a vital condition for bliss.
Bliss is a vital condition for immersion.
Immersion is a vital condition for truly knowing and seeing.
Truly knowing and seeing is a vital condition for disillusionment.
Disillusionment is a vital condition for dispassion.
Dispassion is a vital condition for freedom.
Freedom is a vital condition for the knowledge of ending.
So your somewhat narrow view that happiness often leads to ”ego-conceit/delusion” is not really true.
I don’t see it that way at all.
That people in general enjoy music, books, video games, art, food, dancing and amusements is a minor concern.
Those pleasures are only truly harmful when someone craves for them so much that they are willing to kill, steal or lie just to experience them.
‘Greed, reverends, is mildly blameworthy, but slow to fade away. Hate is very blameworthy, but quick to fade away. Delusion is very blameworthy, and slow to fade away.’
If you have a problem with people enjoying those things you mentioned: ”youth, health, life, succes, power, status, pleasure, Movie, amusements, theater, novels, intoxication.
What about when you die and end up in one of the heavens?
I think you will pretty much hate it there because all those very things you mentioned are present in heaven, but in a way more intense way than anything on earth.
Of course all those pleasures in heaven can become a hindrance if one follows The Buddha.
But somehow wishing that those inhabitants in the heavens who enjoy these things and who also happen to be ethical and wise should ”learn a lesson” by experiencing suffering is a really crazy view to me.
Some devas are also buddhists, so instead relax a little and do not wish the suffering for any being, wish them happiness!
Systematical rape and abuse of women and children is an evil attack against the divine feminine aspects of reality/Universe. It seems like this tactic has gained momentum in modern warfare, which also leads to destruction and or distortion of the sacred masculine forces of nature.
What you wrote plus the many other awful things taking place is why I reject there even being a so-called ”Law of karma”.
I instead follow the suttas that say that karma and rebirth are intertwined.
Even some buddhist monastics think there is this ”law of karma” and that people ”get what they deserve, due to past life karma” - Complete nonsense.
What I mean is The Buddha never mentions some sort of ”Law” that is active here and now among us humans. There is no such law.
Rather our volitional actions, thoughts and speech can determine where we end up, after death.
If this ”law of karma” as explained by some was really true then it would be the most inhumane and stupid thing ever to exist.
Why?
Well if, as you mentioned, an evil psychopath rapes several women, those who believe and claim there is a law of karma are forced to say: ”These women deserved this, due to their past karma”… But wait it doesn’t stop there, the rapist has to feel the consequences of his evil deeds so according to the believers in this ”law of karma” the rapist will take rebirth as a woman and become raped…and that new rapist in return must also feel the consequences….A neverending spiral of evil that has no point.
But thankfully according to the suttas such a rapist ends up taking rebirth in hell instead and is tortured by Yama and his attendants and that evil karma stops right there since:
”they don’t die until that bad deed is eliminated.”
MN 130 goes through all that happens in hell and ends with:
”Now, I don’t say this because I’ve heard it from some other ascetic or brahmin. I only say it because I’ve known, seen, and realized it for myself.”
Human rebirth is also said to be really rare in the suttas, so just the thought that innocent women or children or anyone else for that matter ”deserve” the evil commited against them, is a complete lie.
There is no such thing as a ”law of karma” that determine how others will treat you or do to you.
Only a ”law” that determines where one, based on one’s own volitional actions, end up after death.
And MN 101 is very clear about this:
“‘So, friends, it seems that you don’t know that you existed in the past, and that you did not not exist… you don’t know what is the abandoning of unskillful qualities and the attainment of skillful qualities in the here & now. That being the case, it is not proper for you to assert that, “Whatever a person experiences—pleasure, pain, or neither pleasure nor pain—all is caused by what was done in the past.
They call it a law simply because in this sick and broken world, there is action and reaction. But even good karma is bound to the Saha world, therefore it is Dukkha. Karma is always unfair, that’s why we must reach out with Metta and Love to those who are trapped in this world-ocean of suffering, and help them attain Buddhahood.
But kamma is not limited to only rebirth destination, MN135 clearly says many conditions in life is due to kamma, including being rich or poor. It explains why among all the entrepreneurs who work hard, only some make it rich, because of past generosity.
And then there’s suttas which says after suffering in hell, the doers of evil are reborn in a bad condition as human life. Moggalana himself got killed due to the residue of murdering his parents in a past life. Aṅgulimala got stoned, indicating that kamma is not just linked to rebirth, but also present life effects.
This is the wrong attitude. Our attitude should be compassion, if cannot help, then equanimity is reflecting that all beings are owners of their kamma. Deserves seems to be indicating an aversion reaction, without compassion.
And because that financier murdered his brother’s only child for the sake of his fortune, as a result of that deed he burned in hell for many years, for many hundreds, many thousands, many hundreds of thousands of years. And as a residual result of that same deed, he is childless for the seventh time, his fortune ending up in the royal treasury.
Once upon a time, mendicants, Suppabuddha used to be a financier’s son right here in Rājagaha. On his way to visit a park, he saw Tagarasikhī, an independent Buddha, entering the city for alms. When he saw this he thought, “Who is this leper wandering about with his leper’s robe?” Before leaving, he spat on the ground and turned his left side to Tagarasikhī. As a result of that deed he burned in hell for many years, for many hundreds, many thousands, many hundreds of thousands of years. And as a residual result of that same deed, he became a leper right here in Rājagaha, poor, destitute and pitiful.
Then Venerable Aṅgulimāla robed up in the morning and, taking his bowl and robe, entered Sāvatthī for alms. Now at that time someone threw a stone that hit Aṅgulimāla, someone else threw a stick, and someone else threw gravel. Then Aṅgulimāla—with cracked head, bleeding, his bowl broken, and his outer robe torn—went to the Buddha.
The Buddha saw him coming off in the distance, and said to him, “Endure it, brahmin! Endure it, brahmin! You’re experiencing in this life the result of deeds that might have caused you to be tormented in hell for many years, many hundreds or thousands of years.”
“Mister Gotama, there are some ascetics and brahmins who have this doctrine and view: ‘Everything this individual experiences—pleasurable, painful, or neutral—is because of past deeds.’ What does Mister Gotama say about this?”
“Sīvaka, some feelings stem from bile disorders. You can know this from your own personal experience, and it is generally deemed to be true. Since this is so, the ascetics and brahmins whose view is that everything an individual experiences is because of past deeds go beyond personal experience and beyond what is generally deemed to be true. So those ascetics and brahmins are wrong, I say.
Some feelings stem from phlegm disorders … wind disorders … their conjunction … change in weather … not taking care of yourself … overexertion … Some feelings are the result of past deeds. You can know this from your own personal experience, and it is generally deemed to be true. Since this is so, the ascetics and brahmins whose view is that everything an individual experiences is because of past deeds go beyond personal experience and beyond what is generally deemed to be true. So those ascetics and brahmins are wrong, I say.”
Buddha teaches that all unwholesomeness has avijja as forerunner (SN20.1, SN45.1, AN10.105).
I have faith in that. I also admit i like it. It is, i feel, a very optimistich bright view on life.
Totally not judgmental. It destroyes the idea that life is about good versus evil. Lord of the Rings like view. Good is shining, nice, holy (and human!) and evil is ugly, not human…) Madness.
No, it is about knowing and not-knowing. I like it.
Unwholesomeness has never evilness as forerunner.
And foolishness? Is that really the same as being ignorant? I do not feel so.
No, the reverse order of PS says that all good begins with suffering. Just like i said.
If one suffers, one seeks help…one might seek a therapist, a doctor, or when spiritually inclines maybe even the Buddha as doctor, and Dhamma as medicine, or combi.
But it all starts with suffering. Happy people are not inclined to seek help, let alone refuge!
You have always a strange way of prooving points. With the reverse PS you proof my point that much good comes from suffering.
Wrong view Dhabba.
That nature would be so concerned with humans that even the heavens are attuned to what humans enjoy…that is, for me, a reason to not believe in such idea of heaven. This must all be madness.
It is like our ideas of God. God always very much resembles us…yeh sure. Likewise even heavens and hell resemble what humans like most and fear most. Sure…Like nature seen from only human perspective. Antropocentric. Madness i think. Who can only imagine this to be heaven then humans?
If an animal would think of heaven would that animal think of naked dancing deva’s
But Dhabba does. He sees naked deva’s dancing, entertaining him, and he feels that is really pleasant all. He hears only divine music. Oh, oh.
I tend to believe it is very well possible that kamma can really create a state of hell, of being on fire, very painful, or with a feeling of being torn apart, because that is what effect there really can be on the mind. But to envision this as seperate realms where beings inflict this upon the hell-beings, i do not know if that is really credible. It very much looks like a product of imagination.
Neither the sun, nor the moon, nor the star Phusa is as bright as your mansion. Your large bright mansion shines in the sky brilliantly. What heavenly world did you come from today?
The radiance of your mansion can be seen for more than two thousand kilometers. This beautiful mansion shines both at night and day – pure, bright, and brilliant.
Around the palace there are beautiful flowers – red lotuses, white lotuses, and water lilies. Golden nets with fancy carvings are hanging there; they too shine like the sun. The mansion is decorated with divine red and yellow cloth and filled with the sweet fragrance of aloe, piyangu, and sandalwood. The mansion is surrounded by devatas with bright golden-colored bodies. It looks like the beautiful night sky covered by stars.
Devas and devatas are different colors here. Their bodies and hair are decorated with various flowers and ornaments. Golden flowers release a sweet smell when the breeze blows.
How did you receive these wonderful things? What meritorious action did you do to have gained this wonderful result? Is it because of your virtue or restrained life? Could you please explain it to me?
the Buddha took Nanda by the arm and, as easily as a strong person would extend or contract their arm, vanished from Jeta’s Grove and reappeared among the gods of the Thirty-Three.
Now at that time five hundred dove-footed nymphs had come to attend to Sakka, the lord of gods. Then the Buddha said to Nanda, “Nanda, do you see these five hundred dove-footed nymphs?” “Yes, sir,” he replied.
“What do you think, Nanda? Who is more attractive, good-looking, and lovely—the finest lady of the Sakyan land, or these five hundred dove-footed nymphs?” “Compared to these five hundred dove-footed nymphs, the finest lady of the Sakyan land is like a deformed monkey with its ears and nose cut off. She doesn’t count, there’s no comparison, she’s not worth a fraction. These five hundred dove-footed nymphs are far more attractive, good-looking, and lovely.”
In the same way, compared to the suffering in hell, the pain and distress experienced by that man due to being struck with three hundred spears doesn’t count, it’s not worth a fraction, there’s no comparison.
The wardens of hell punish them with the five-fold crucifixion. They drive red-hot stakes through the hands and feet, and another in the middle of the chest. And there they feel painful, sharp, severe, acute feelings—but they don’t die until that bad deed is eliminated.
The wardens of hell throw them down and hack them with axes. …
They hang them upside-down and hack them with hatchets. …
They harness them to a chariot, and drive them back and forth across burning ground, blazing and glowing. …
They make them climb up and down a huge mountain of burning coals, blazing and glowing. …
The wardens of hell turn them upside down and throw them into a red-hot copper pot, burning, blazing, and glowing. There they’re seared in boiling scum, and they’re swept up and down and round and round. And there they feel painful, sharp, severe, acute feelings—but they don’t die until that bad deed is eliminated.
The wardens of hell toss them in the Great Hell. Now, about that Great Hell:
‘Four are its corners, four its doors,
neatly divided in equal parts.
Surrounded by an iron wall,
of iron is its roof.
The ground is even made of iron,
it burns with fierce fire.
The heat forever radiates
a hundred leagues around.’
I could tell you many different things about hell. So much so that it’s not easy to completely describe the suffering in hell.
Yes, i know all these description of heaven and hell. I also know the sutta’s teach that the Buddha did not have knowledge about all this by hearsay. But some direct vision of all this.
But i have no full trust in all this. Why must we believe that all is literally true in the sutta’s? I think it is very well possible the Buddha also made use of simplistic ways of explaining things, or depicting things that serve the goal but also must not be taken to literally.
I think it is obvious that humans always think they are very special and even the heavens and hells are attuned to their wishes and fears. But personally i have never thought about heaven as being adorned with flowers and ornaments. To be honest, if i see such human communities, with all happy shining people, i cannot feel comfortable with that. I do not want to be there.
But again, i do not really doubt that kamma can cause hellish and celestial existence. But if this is really as depicted in the sutta’s, i doubt.
Ok but avijja means ignorance as in misconceptions, misunderstandings & incorrect knowledge.
So are you now somehow claiming that people commit evil intentional actions unintentionally?
If people killed, stole and lied ”unintentionally” there would not even be any bad kamma to begin with because the intent to do so was never there.
Choices made out of ignorance are still intentional choices.
Strange how you are ”totally not judgemental” when it comes to evil actions that innocent people clearly do not deserve to experience…
But on the otherhand if people enjoy sense-pleasures or I try to make you see that there are plenty of great people all over the world you throw a fit and is very disappointed with everything people do and see nothing good in fellow human beings and even and think ”dark forces and evil beings rule the West.” among many other things you expressed.
But that is not madness???
You could not even agree with me in a single post you made that there are good people out there….
I have a strange way?
Your point is that it doesn’t matter if people get tortured in war, have their houses bombed, loved ones killed, raped, robbed, lied to, pollution of the environment and water with plastics and so on - ”because much good comes from suffering”.
Despite the fact that there is so much unnecessary suffering experienced by innocent people that never leads to any good - are you still missing my point?
I say that suffering has a vital condition. And what is it? You should say: ‘Rebirth.’ I say that rebirth has a vital condition. And what is it? You should say: ‘Continued existence.’ I say that continued existence has a vital condition. And what is it? You should say: ‘Grasping.’ I say that grasping has a vital condition. And what is it? You should say: ‘Craving.’ I say that craving has a vital condition.
You said nothing like this sutta quote above and now you want to make it seem like this is what you really meant?
You only claimed happiness leads to
’ego-conciet/delusion” and therefore suffering is good.
But the point I actually made is after suffering comes faith: Faith is a vital condition for joy. <———— You see, joy = happy.
But in your view this happiness must result in:
Yet all the other links also involve forms of happiness and not suffering…
Joy is a vital condition for rapture. Rapture is a vital condition for tranquility. Tranquility is a vital condition for bliss. Bliss is a vital condition for immersion. Immersion is a vital condition for truly knowing and seeing. Truly knowing and seeing is a vital condition for disillusionment. Disillusionment is a vital condition for dispassion. Dispassion is a vital condition for freedom. Freedom is a vital condition for the knowledge of ending.
But you think it is better to suffer than to be happy, thus jumping out of these positive links and back to faith from the suffering you claim is so good…
Right view involves that there is a heavenly afterlife and the fruit of deeds.
The Buddha says only wise and ethical people make it to heaven.
So if those heavenly inhabibtants enjoy such harmless things like I mentioned:
Plus the fact that
How can you then even claim for a second that these ethical & wise heavenly beings enjoying these harmless things and who would never kill, steal or lie just to experience these things have wrong view and that I also have wrong view?
Why do you think it is called Kama Loka in the first place?
These heavens are all within Kama Loka, remember?
Yet you can’t believe in such ”ideas of heavens”…
If these heavens are in Kama Loka they ought to be places where one can enjoy those very sense-pleasures like music, art, food, dancing and amusements etc…
I know animals have way better developed senses than humans but had no clue they are also clairvoyant and can see naked dancing devas and even think of these things. Impressive. What a great dhamma lesson.
But of course I do! I play the following instruments: guitar, bass, percussion/drums, electric violin, santoor, keys, wind instruments, kora harp and a bunch of other instruments. Why do you care if I end up in Tavatimsa heaven and have a good time making music? I hope they also serve delicious meals from Guangdong, mjammie
It is not like I will kill, steal, commit sexual misconduct, lie and drink intoxicants while there.
But eventually I will start to do those very things, forget all about buddhism and come back as an animal that remembers those beautiful dancing devas.
While you as a lay buddhist will skip Kama Loka and end up in Rupa Loka like advanced monastics/meditators and maybe even battle with Māra, eventhough he is actually not there.
Since you think and feel so, it must be like that.
Anything else is madness, I feel.
Yes, but that is for me no issue at all anymore. It used to be.
I like to believe that even the jihadist of Isis is convinced he is really involved in something good. Even Hitler. Also Putin, Assad, Stalin, The Chinese leaders, the generals of war, the soldiers killing eachother and talking about their enemies as Orks. I also believe the Jain leaders, leaders of Church, Islam, Hinduism, the sceptics, even Buddhist. I believe they all are convinced to be involved in something good, otherwise they would not be involved.
That is also why i feel it is correct that such sutta’s exist as AN1.314 and next.
It is also a misunderstanding that rebirth only depends on intentions. That is not true.
It is described like this (Mn4) "I understood how beings pass on according to their actions thus: "These worthy beings who were ill-conducted in body, speech, and mind, revilers of noble ones, wrong in their views, giving effect to wrong view in theiractions, on the dissolution of the body, after death, have reappeared in a state of deprivation, in a bad destination, in perdition, even in hell;
This wrong/right view is really the most important factor for what kind of future for oneself and others arises. Not intention. Because intentions arise in a mind with a certain understanding, and based upon that one speaks or acts. It is view that shapes the future.
A drugs addict may first start from the idea that what he felt was really happiness (wrong view) And what he did, taking drugs, really a Path to happiness (wrong view). But his/her wrong view will create a future that is miserable. IView is what really matters in life.
They seek pleasure. What is pleasure? Impermanent. What is impermanent, is that suffering or happiness? It that worth seeking? Ofcourse, seeking pleasure is action based upon wrong view.
because all those very things you mentioned are present in heaven, but in a way more intense way than anything on earth.
