Is vipassana movement's sukkhavipassaka doctrine legitimate?

Discussion
1

In the topic on Stillness and liberating insight a very detailed and interesting study on the sukkhavipassaka doctrine was shared:

147736959-A-Study-of-Sukkihavipassaka-in-Pali-Buddhism-final.pdf (2.1 MB)

In a nutshell, the sukkhavipassaka doctrine makes a possibility the occurrence of awakening without jhanas and is the basis of much of the ‘vipassana movements’ of nowadays.

While it is not the objective of the thesis to analyse the authenticity of the textual sources and support material for the sukkhavipassaka doctrine it concludes that “since the doctrine is shared by several early Buddhist schools, it could be regarded as the common heritage of those early Buddhist traditions, which was passed down from an earlier tradition, probably back to the time of the Buddha and his immediate disciples.”

It was interesting to learn from it that non-Theravada literature leveraged on their equivalents/parallels of the Susima Sutta (SN12.70) to support the idea that awakening can be eventuated through a cultivation of the path based on dry-insight meditative approaches alone.

While a part of me loves the idea that the path can be short-circuited and the serious development of jhana discarded altogether I can’t stop to ask myself how could I have confidence in that approach given that we have only one sutta in the whole of the Canon to support that?

One one side I ask myself wheter it is masochism to insist that there cannot be awakening without jhana , on the other I question whether it is not a risky call to give up totally the aspiration to cultivate the causes of jhana just because of what one single sutta tells me…

Hence, I start the topic the explore and discuss further:

  • the study’s findings and arguments on the topic of the sukkhavipassaka doctrine
  • what can be said about the authenticity of SN12.70 and its parallels, and why among so many other suttas only there we find a model of awakening in which jhanas are not necessary?
8 Likes
2

So to be clear, this thesis (which I haven’t read) is basing itself in the Susima Sutta? SN12.70 And is making the claim that “dry insight” works based on this one sutta?

1 Like
3

No, it does more than that, and in chapter two the author lists a number of suttas to come up with a model of"jhānas of right concentration as the jhānas obtained through insight meditation". See page 90 of the PDF / 77 of the document).

3 Likes
4

This is what Bhikkhu Tanissaro stated in his translation of Susima Sutta:

“SN 12.70 PTS: S ii 119 CDB i 612
Susima Sutta: About Susima
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
© 1998”

“Translator’s note: This discourse is sometimes cited as proof that a meditator can attain Awakening (final gnosis) without having practiced the jhanas, but a close reading shows that it does not support this assertion at all. The new arahants mentioned here do not deny that they have attained any of the four “form” jhanas that make up the definition of right concentration. Instead, they simply deny that they have acquired any psychic powers or that they remain in physical contact with the higher levels of concentration, “the formless states beyond forms.” In this, their definition of “discernment-release” is no different from that given in AN 9.44 (compare this with the definitions for “bodily witness” and “released in both ways” given in AN 9.43 and AN 9.45). Taken in the context of the Buddha’s many other teachings on right concentration, there’s every reason to believe that the new arahants mentioned in this discourse had reached at least the first jhana before attaining Awakening.”

Experienced Vipassana yogis agree with this comment.

Sukhi Hotu

5 Likes
5

Okay I had a brief look at page 90 but have to admit that I don’t feel particularly drawn to reading the document more thoroughly!

However, to keep the topic on track, I might just focus in on this a bit

And refer to the SN12.70.

It seems to me, whatever corruptions or additions or however late or early this sutta is, its purpose is clear; it is to show that Ven Susima had a bee in his bonnet about how progression on the Path could happen without all of the coolest psychic powers.

It doesn’t actually mention that Jhanas are not necessary because that’s not it’s purpose and that wasn’t the intended message to the primary target audience (of Susima).

This, from SN12.70…

Then knowing and seeing thus, Susīma, do you dwell in those peaceful deliverances that transcend forms, the formless attainments, having touched them with the body?”

…just seems to be referring to the 4 immaterial attainments, not the Jhanas.

It is a bit of a strange sutta though. If Susima really (ie. was Awakened) did understand the answer to those first questions the Buddha asks him, why wouldn’t he understand the perspective of the Arahants at the start? Perhaps the purpose of the sutta was lost in the desire to have consistency (such as in the list of powers) for the sake of ease of memorisation?

I think these are excellent and important questions and I’m looking forward to seeing how others answer. :slight_smile:

Nice one gnlaera :anjal:

3 Likes
6

The Chinese parallel to the Susima Sutta dispenses with even the Jhanas.

5 Likes
7

Hmmm…that just makes me think this even more

…you know, that they just added them in there because it seemed as if they belonged to that list.

Adding to this:

…I reckon a lot of the (relevant) original context for this story has been lost.

As others more learned and experienced have said again and again, we shouldn’t interpret the majority of suttas, by using the seeming relevance of teachings found in a minority; rather it should be the other way 'round.

2 Likes
8

I would rather say it is masochism to desire awakening without the help and pleasure of the jhanas :smile:

7 Likes
9

One might assume that is why the Buddha taught the four modes of practice AN4.163.

2 Likes
10

Is this thesis done for a PHD in a university?

11

I am not sure that this is a correct interpretation of the vipassana movement or Wen°s thesis. The Theravadian axiomatic system does not allow for liberation without jhana. But in order to discuss this, one must accept the distinction between lokiya and lokuttara jhana. Otherwise it get too muddled.

2 Likes
12

Furthermore, in the Theravada system the “access concentration” required for insight involves development of the jhana factors to a high degree. “Dry insight” doesn’t mean just thinking.

2 Likes
13

I wonder if vipassana actually means insight in the suttas. I’ve not done a survey but the sense I get is that it means applying Right View, rather than acquiring Right View.

3 Likes
14

This paper doesn’t claim that vipassana meditators require mundane or supramundane jhana (assuming the latter exists at all, as it is not mentioned in the EBTs), as far as I could see. In its abstract it comes to the following conclusion:

“Since various Buddhist schools in India unanimously advocate the idea that there are arahants who have not achieved the form-sphere jhāna, this research concludes that the dry-insight meditative approach and dry-insight arahants are not an invention by Theravādin commentators, but a common heritage which was most probably handed down from the time of the Buddha and then shared by various Buddhist schools.”

I think this statement misleads the reader, who might not be otherwise familiar with the EBTs, into thinking that the Buddha was the originator of this idea of a sukkhavipassana arahanth- no such concept exists in the EBTs. In fact it is overwhelming in its endorsement of the need for at least the first jhana for arahanthood.
The paper further states:

However, the canonical and commentarial sources preserved in the Chinese Āgama and Abhidharma texts acknowledge the existence of arahants without form-sphere jhānas and thus they no doubt provide a different perspective and valuable material for deeper investigation and discussion.

However, the paper doesn’t comment on The Susīma Sutta in the Mahāsāṃghikavinaya found in their appendix 4, page 280, which only states that the immaterial jhana are missing in these arahanths, and does not mention the material jhana- in parallel with the Susima sutta of the Pali Theravada cannon, the latter being considered the most accurate of the existent cannons. It doesn’t take into account the need for jhana emphasised in the Pali Theravada cannon, nor does this paper attribute sufficient weight to the Theravada cannon being considered accurate compared to other cannons like the Chinese ones, for example. Only by discounting the evidence in the Theravada EBTs and discounting the accuracy elment of those texts, is the author able to arrive at this conclusion.
The author further states, of his mentor Dr. Primoz Pecenko:

”my research would not have been possible without his encouragement and generous help from the very beginning of my application to the University of Queensland in 2003, and partly because he and I share a great faith and love for Buddhist insight meditation.”
This declaration that his work was funded by someone influential, who was a Mahasi meditator and initiates others to carry out translations, for eg.: http://www.canberrainsightmeditationgroup.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Translating-the-Buddha-3.doc.

From the above document: ‘Primoz had lived in Panditarama, Rangoon, for several years before he and Tamara married’.

I think there is an ugly and unfortunate trend to misrepresent the understanding of the Dhamma to fit in with what is taught in one’s lineage, rather than just saying ‘we teach this, but then there is also this, which we don’t teach’.

Because some practice is hard to do, hard to understand, not in line with what is popularly considered ‘reality’, unpopular, not taught by my teacher, currently un-understood by logic - these are not reasons for misrepresenting the Dhamma, in my opinion.

With metta,

6 Likes
15

The usual misconception about jhāna is that it is translated as “absorption”. When indeed, it comes from the Sanskrit root √ क्षि kṣi; that means “to make an end of” (RV. AV. MBh.) - As you can see, this meaning has kept its signification over the years (viz. across Buddha’s time).

Vipassana is (or at least starts at) the last part of the four establishments. It is concernd with liberation; and particularly with the liberation of the citta - and therefore brings añña (= viz., among others, the knowledge that there will be no more rebirth).
That does not promote the attainment of nibbana, though.

One has to turn also to the extract:
“Whether or not you understand, Susīma, first comes knowledge of the stability (unmoving) of the Dhamma, afterwards knowledge of Nibbāna.”
“Pubbe kho, susima, dhammaṭṭhitiñāṇaṃ, pacchā nibbāne ñāṇan”ti.

So what is said here is that you have first to get liberated through the last stage that is vipassana. This gives you the knowledge that the Dhamma is “unmoving”. And that to get to the “moving”, you must escape birth.

See Upaniṣads for a meaning of ṭṭhiti (sthita):
dve vāva brahmaṇo rūpe
mūrtaṃ caivāmūrtaṃ ca
martyaṃ cāmṛtaṃ ca
sthitaṃ ca yac ca
sac ca tyaṃ ca
Verily, there are two forms of Brahman,
the formed and the formless,
the mortal and the immortal,
the unmoving and the moving,
the actual (existent) and the true (being).
BṛĀrUp. 2.3.1

Then comes the knowledge of nibbāna - to be reached through the higher jhānas (“making an end of”).

https://justpaste.it/1cmhg

1 Like
16

There are lots of ideas found in the schools that are held in common, yet which have no substantial basis in the early texts. The fact that people in the past made bad arguments based on a misreading of an isolated text doesn’t excuse us for making the same mistake.

14 Likes
17

thanks bhante, but what do you think about this vinaya story ?

Mahākhandhaka
While his father was given this teaching, Yasa reviewed what he had already seen and understood, and his mind was freed from the corruptions without grasping

Mahakhandaka
On one occasion, while he was enjoying himself with worldly pleasures, he fell asleep early, and so did his attendants.

Note in that above quote yassa here still enjoy sensual pleasure something that one who attains jhana doesn’t do based on this below sutta

Mn14
so long as they don’t achieve the rapture and bliss that are apart from sensual pleasures and unskillful qualities, or something even more peaceful than that, they might still return to sensual pleasures. But when they do achieve that rapture and bliss, or something more peaceful than that, they will not return to sensual pleasures.

Below is the full story of yassa Thanks @ratana

Mahākhandhaka
At that time in Benares there was a son of a good family called Yasa, the son of a wealthy merchant, who had been brought up in great comfort. He had three stilt houses: one for the winter, one for the summer, and one for the rainy season.
While Yasa was spending the four months of the rainy season in the rainy-season house, he was only attended on by female musicians, and he did not come down from that house. On one occasion, while he was enjoying himself with worldly pleasures, he fell asleep early, and so did his attendants. When he woke up early, the oil lamp was still burning. He saw his attendants sleeping: one with a lute in her armpit, another with a tabor on her neck, still another with a drum in her armpit; one with hair disheveled, another drooling, still another talking in her sleep. It was like a charnel ground before his very eyes. When he saw this, the misery became clear, and a feeling of repulsion stayed with him. He exclaimed a heartfelt utterance: “Oh the oppression! Oh the affliction!”
Yasa put on his golden shoes and went to the entrance door. Spirits opened the door, thinking, “No-one should create any obstacle for Yasa’s going forth into homelessness.” He went to the town gate, and again it was opened by spirits. He then went to the dear park at Isipatana.
Just then, after getting up early in the morning, the Buddha was walking up and down outside. When the Buddha saw Yasa coming, he came down from his walking-path and sat down on the prepared seat.
As he was getting close to the Buddha, Yasa exclaimed the same heartfelt utterance: “Oh the oppression! Oh the affliction!”
The Buddha said, “This, Yasa, isn’t oppressive, it isn’t afflictive. Come and sit down; I’ll give you a teaching.”
Thinking, “Apparently this isn’t oppressive, apparently it’s not afflictive!” excited and joyful, Yasa removed his shoes, approached the Buddha, bowed, and sat down.
The Buddha then gave Yasa a progressive teaching: talk on generosity, talk on morality, talk on heaven; and he revealed the danger, degradation, and defilement in worldly pleasures, and the benefit of renunciation. When the Buddha knew that Yasa’s mind was ready, supple, without hindrances, joyful, and confident, he revealed the teaching unique to the Buddhas: suffering, its origin, its end, and the path. Just as a clean and stainless cloth absorbs dye properly, so too, while he was sitting right there, Yasa experienced the stainless vision of the Truth: “Anything that has a beginning has an end.”
Soon afterwards Yasa’s mother went up to his stilt house. Not seeing him, she went to her husband and said, “I can’t find your son Yasa.” The merchant then dispatched horsemen in the four directions, and he himself went to the dear park at Isipatana. He saw the imprints of the golden shoes on the ground and he followed along.
When the Buddha saw the wealthy merchant coming, he thought, “Let me use my supernormal powers so that the merchant, when he sits down, doesn’t see Yasa seated next to him.” And he did just that.
The merchant approached the Buddha and said, “Sir, have you seen Yasa by any chance?”
“Please sit down, householder. Perhaps you’ll see Yasa seated next to you.”
When the merchant heard this, he was elated and joyful, and he bowed and sat down.
The Buddha then gave him a progressive teaching: talk on generosity, talk on morality, talk on heaven; and he revealed the danger, degradation, and defilement in worldly pleasures, and the benefit of renunciation. When the Buddha knew that his mind was ready, supple, without hindrances, joyful, and confident, he revealed the teaching unique to the Buddhas: suffering, its origin, its end, and the path. And just as a clean and stainless cloth absorbs dye properly, so too, while he was sitting right there, the merchant experienced the stainless vision of the Truth: “Anything that has a beginning has an end.”
He had seen the Truth, had reached, understood, and penetrated it; he had gone beyond doubt and uncertainty, had attained to confidence, and had become independent of others in the Teacher’s instruction. And he said to the Buddha, “Wonderful, Venerable Sir, wonderful! Just as one might set upright what had been overturned, or reveal what was hidden, or show the way to one who was lost, or bring a lamp into the darkness so that one with eyes might
see what’s there—just so has the Buddha made the Teaching clear in many ways. I take refuge in the Buddha, the Teaching, and the Sangha of monks. Please accept me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge for life.” And he was the first person in the world to become a lay follower by means of the triple refuge.
While his father was given this teaching, Yasa reviewed what he had already seen and understood, and his mind was freed from the corruptions without grasping

Now this is another sutta bhante that you need to make clear, it seems that Buddha said here that as you hear dhamma at the same time the awakening factors are fully developed

Sn46.38
Mendicants, sometimes a mendicant pays heed, pays attention, engages wholeheartedly, and lends an ear to the teaching. At such a time the five hindrances are absent, and the seven awakening factors are fully developed.

I think you already know bhante the significance of the awakening factors but for those who don’t know

Sn46.26
“Mendicants, you should develop the path and the practice that leads to the ending of craving. And what is the path and the practice that leads to the ending of craving? It is the seven awakening factors."

Sn46.30
I acquired the awakening factors of mindfulness, investigation of principles, energy, rapture, tranquility, immersion, and equanimity. When developed and cultivated as I’m living in such a way, they will bring me to such a state that I will understand: ‘Rebirth is ended, the spiritual journey has been completed, what had to be done has been done, there is no return to any state of existence.’ This is the path that I acquired.

Mn118
And the seven awakening factors, when developed and cultivated, fulfill knowledge and freedom.

Mn77
Furthermore, I have explained to my disciples a practice that they use to develop the seven awakening factors. It’s when a mendicant develops the awakening factors of mindfulness, investigation of principles, energy, rapture, tranquility, immersion, and equanimity, which rely on seclusion, fading away, and cessation, and ripen as letting go. And many of my disciples meditate on that having attained perfection and consummation of insight.

Dn34
Furthermore, a mendicant with defilements ended has well developed the seven awakening factors. …

Dn16
They correctly develop the seven awakening factors. And they wake up to the supreme perfect awakening.’”

Dn28
They correctly develop the seven awakening factors. And they wake up to the supreme perfect awakening.’

Furthermore bhante in the most popular discourse the fire sermon sutta which is also the 4th discourse that Buddha delivered there Buddha said nothing about concentration practice but only insight practice, buddha said in that sutta that one get enlightened just by observing the six senses’s relationship with 3 unskillful roots as they observe it greed falls away, note that 1000 monks get enlightened as soon as Buddha finished that sutta, this number is higher than all those suttas which mention the jhanas

May bhante be happy :smiling_face_with_three_hearts::smiling_face_with_three_hearts:
May bhante crush all suffering
May bhante don’t lose what bhante gains
May bhante stay equanimious regardless of pleasure or pain

Thanks
:pray::pray:

18

I discussed all these contexts at length in my book A Swift Pair of Messengers, which I cordially invite you to read!

2 Likes